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What do you mean to defend our borders, to prevent the illegal from entering. If you do, then you do not know much about U.S. Law.
No I do not mean to just prevent illegal entry. And I am fully aware of the laws governing use of the military on American soil. But there are a number of Nat'l Guard units in Iraq. Units that could be used in internal defense. In addition, the money wasted in Iraq could have been put to much better use in defending our borders, which is basically what I meant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredNavy
So you complain about the power of the U.S. government, just image of the powers the government would have against there own citizens if the had the military behind them. If you want to give them more power, please by all means organize the people of the United States to change the law to give them even more power and passing that power down to the military.
Where did I complain about the "power of the US Government"? What I complained about was the ABUSE of its power.
Since much of what has been said in this thread is opinion, giving a negative comment goes against those guidelines.
And finally, the more I think about it the more incensed I am at your accusation that I lied. You have no cause to question my or anyone's veracity absent of proof. Yes I was in the South Tower that day. I saw flames shooting out of the windows of the North Tower from my office window. I was in a stairwell on the 16th floor when the second plane hit. The lights went out and the building shook. I saw the plaza looking like a war zone with flaming debris all over the place. Those images and that experience are etched in my memory.
Conspiracism, very interesting you would say that being retire navy.
What ever happen to We the People. a governement of the people , by the people and for the people. Something the goverment has forgetten.
One some matters I agree with you. I do believe that a majority of our problems is that being a Politician is a career not a desire to serve the people of the United States. I do not believe that the ones that are elected for terms are out to get the people.
Having served in the military, I know much more about countries than what the average citizen knows or has access too. Thus when people make rushed discission without have all of the facts is a little irritating. That is why most of the military believe in what we are doing in Iraq is for the better. They know from having much more information and/or by seeing first hand.
Many bring up the WMD issue, and when we went to Iraq it was believed by all there was. Not just by Bush's cronies as some would point out, but also by the military, many other countries and their military. Did we find any, no? However, based on the information everyone had, Bush and his cronies and many other countries made a discission. Now that we have turned Iraq upside down, we have a moral obligation to correct the mistake. And we CANNOT let Iran get ahold of Iraq. You believe we have issues now, if we where to let that happen there would be turmoil. The 2500 military that have died in Iraq would be a small number compared to Iran.
Having served in the military, I know much more about countries than what the average citizen knows or has access too.
I'm not too sure about that. The backpacker who spends their nights in the homes of the citizens then travels the country would have knowledge that you would not have. The habitual business traveller who experiences various countries and needs to understand their mores and traditions has good knowledge as well. People in one country who befriend and host may people from different countries have a good understanding of the variety of cultures. Military people may have knowledge that is skewed by being surrounded by heavy weaponry in a host country.
Military people may have knowledge that is skewed by being surrounded by heavy weaponry in a host country.
Hi NK - me again
The above is not quite true. Our military are exposed to many cultures and variety parts of society. They actually become a member of the community where their duty station is, whether that be US or overseas. So, I would think they would have a very well rounded view and extensive knowledge of a variety of cultures, countries and policies. Oh trust me NK, it is far more than being surrounded by heavy weaponry. But I am sure retired Navy can answer this one awhole lot better.
Retirednavy - I do hope you address ScottGem's upset at not believing his word. I can not find the post where this took place, but I hope you do address it. That is very upsetting. Scott, I can not even imagine what that must have been like and so sorry you experienced that.
If you truely believe that then the world is lost. I have an idea, lets turn over the government to a 16 years old that thinks their teachers are just there to be irritating. Just because you know what a radiator is and can point out the fuel injector does not mean you know how to fix a car. So, talking to farmer that knows what is in his fields does not mean he knows what is in his government, military or even the local police. Also, there is a big differnece between a countries culture amound the average Joe then the culture of a government. Just look at the difference we have from the culture in the North and the culture in the South. Talking to a Northern does not mean I know the Southerner.
My point was that the residents of the country may relate differently to a person carrying a sidearm or assault weapon. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredNavy
Just look at the difference we have from the culture in the North and the culture in the South. Talking to a Northern does not mean I know the Southerner.
How would you know anyhting about North Korea? You're not a citizen of that country.
But there are a number of Nat'l Guard units in Iraq. Units that could be used in internal defense. In addition, the money wasted in Iraq could have been put to much better use in defending our borders, which is basically what I meant.
Again, the Federal Governemtn using the National Guard is borderline to breaking the law. About the only way they are getting by using them is that the state Governors are directing them. In regards to defending our border, the terroist that attacked us all had legal and/or forged passports to enter the country. That is up to Customes to emforce not the military. Mexican coming into the U.S. to work is not a military action by a foriegner. I do agree it needs to be fixed but it is not an issue of the military.
Where did I complain about the "power of the US Government"? What I complained about was the ABUSE of its power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
Since much of what has been said in this thread is opinion, giving a negative comment goes against those guidelines.
Please specify which comment you are talking about when I used the Comment Feature. I
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
Since And finally, the more I think about it the more incensed I am at your accusation that I lied. You have no cause to question my or anyone's veracity absent of proof.
This is very intersting comment considering the entire thread is doing just that except with Bush. Many have accused Bush of lieing and are questioning veracity absent of proof. It is amazing how upset when people get when there actions are repeated against them by others.
With that being said, the reason I question your locality on 9/11 is that I find it hard to understand that anyone that lived through that HELL can not understand why it is better to take the fight away from our soil. Iraq may not have been the best choice but it has caused the terrorist (ie the Insergency) to attack those that is the job to fight. Citizen should not be at the front line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Hi Allheart,
My point was that the residents of the country may relate differently to a person carrying a sidearm or assault weapon. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
In my case, I have been to 34 countries and I can agree that the view of a average Joe is different than the view of the government. So, in my case having first hand contact with the average citizen plus access to other information. I can a say I have more knowledge than the average US citizen about foriegn countries. I can also say that my knowledge level is not even close to higher officials. So, I do not know everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
How would you know anyhting about North Korea? You're not a citizen of that country.
Did I say anything about North Korea? Let me be specific, a U.S. Northern (example from New York) and a U.S. Southern (Example from South Carolina) cultures are different.
Many bring up the WMD issue, and when we went to Iraq it was believed by all there was. Not just by Bush's cronies as some would point out, but also by the military, many other countries and their military. Did we find any, no?
However, based on the information everyone had, Bush and his cronies and many other countries made a discission.
Hello again, Navy:
You seem to think that is was ok to invade Iraq because we all thought he had WMD's. It wasn’t. Hell, I thought he had 'em too. But, a country shouldn't go to war on what it thinks, and it certainly shouldn't go to war based on what I think. It appears, however, that my thinking wasn't any better than the CIA's. But, I was guessing. Looks like they were too.
Bush took us to war based on faulty data, and we've ruined their country. His unwarranted invasion EMBOLDENDED our enemies throughout the Muslim world. Plus, he’s expanded the military to the breaking point making us even LESS safe than we were.
Finally, since you’ve been there, were the Iraqi's better off under Saddam than they are now????? I say YES! By a long shot, and I've never been there.
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