Border Fence Raises Environmental Concerns

speechlesstx · Jul 31, 2007, 12:17 PM

It had to happen...

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The Mexican government is seeking changes to a plan that would expand fences along the United States - Mexico border. It is due to a threat to migratory species accustomed to roaming freely across the frontier. The Environment Department called on Washington to alter the border barriers. The goal is change the border where necessary because the fences could seriously hurt species that cross a 1,900 mile stretch.

Mexico also wants Washington to expand its environmental impact study on the fences. "The eventual construction of this barrier would place at risk the various ecosystems that we share," said Environment Secretary Juan Rafael Elvira. He noted that the border is not just desert, but includes mountains, rivers and wetlands.

A report prepared for the Mexican government by experts and activists from both countries said the fences could isolate border animals into smaller population groups. Thereby affecting their genetic diversity.

Environmentalists add that highly endangered species like the antelope - the Sonoran Pronghorn of which only about 100 still exist - could be wiped out in coming years. They are used to moving across the border in search of scarce grassland.

Which is worse for this environment, a fence or thousands upon thousands of illegals overrunning the land, letting campfires burn out of control, killing whatever they can find to eat and otherwise trashing the place?

nauticalstar420 · Jul 31, 2007, 01:25 PM

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Hang on there, my part of Texas is booming and quite nice ... except for those Wal-Mart bags decorating our trees thanks to the wind, and those ugly Caddies

LOL, I said "for the most part" on Texas. There are still SOME nice parts of California, but thats only because its too expensive for them to live there. Unfortunately, its too expensive for me to live there as well..lol

nauticalstar420 · Jul 31, 2007, 01:26 PM

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

As for the topic: in 1992 Mexico had one of the largest disregards for the environment and humanity on our shared continent. So disastrous it became a National Geographic special.

Bobby

Why does that not surprise me? lol

BABRAM · Jul 31, 2007, 01:30 PM

"Why does that not surprise me? lol"

The Guadalajara blast in 1992 was horrible. I think instead of spending untold amounts of our tax dollars we should uses the resources of Mexico with our U.S. ingenuity.

Bobby

nauticalstar420 · Jul 31, 2007, 01:36 PM

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

"Why does that not surprise me? lol"

The Guadalajara blast in 1992 was horrible. I think instead of spending untold amounts of our tax dollars we should uses the resources of Mexico with our U.S. ingenuity.

Bobby

Crap. I guess i misunderstood what you said, after all I was 9 when that happened. I dont even remember it. It did sound horrible though.

What do you mean by "uses the resources of Mexico" though? As far as i've seen personally, Mexico doesnt have much for resources.

speechlesstx · Jul 31, 2007, 01:38 PM

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Originally Posted by nauticalstar420

There are still SOME nice parts of California, but thats only because its too expensive for them to live there. Unfortunately, its too expensive for me to live there as well..lol

Which is why I don't live there, lol.

nauticalstar420 · Jul 31, 2007, 01:40 PM

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Which is why I don't live there, lol.

I'm getting ready to move there soon, but not to a very nice part.

My husband is going to be a CO for one of the prisons over there.

My hometown is Reedley, CA. It used to be so beautiful when i was younger, but it has turned to crap. Garbage everywhere, people loitering in front of stores and shopping malls, the whole town stinks in general, i mean actually has a bad smell. Its such a shame.

BABRAM · Jul 31, 2007, 02:26 PM

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Originally Posted by nauticalstar420

Crap. I guess i misunderstood what you said, after all I was 9 when that happened. I dont even remember it. It did sound horrible though.

What do you mean by "uses the resources of Mexico" though? As far as i've seen personally, Mexico doesnt have much for resources.

That's the problem with the issue. Most Americans have been looking at the issue with negatives for decades and now have resigned to building fences. Mexico has much to offer. We have to share our ingenuity to make it productive for both societies. The following list is not updated, but it is a good primer.

MEXICO

Agriculture: corn, wheat, soybeans, rice, beans, cotton, coffee, fruit, tomatoes; beef, poultry, dairy products; wood products. Labor force: 43.4 million; agriculture 18%, industry 24%, services 58% (2003). Industries: food and beverages, tobacco, chemicals, iron and steel, petroleum, mining, textiles, clothing, motor vehicles, consumer durables, tourism. Natural resources: petroleum, silver, copper, gold, lead, zinc, natural gas, timber. Exports: $213.7 billion f.o.b. (2005 est.): manufactured goods, oil and oil products, silver, fruits, vegetables, coffee, cotton. Imports: $223.7 billion f.o.b. (2005 est.): metalworking machines, steel mill products, agricultural machinery, electrical equipment, car parts for assembly, repair parts for motor vehicles, aircraft, and aircraft parts. Major trading partners: U.S., Canada, Spain, China, Japan (2004).

Communications: Telephones: main lines in use: 12.332 million (2000); mobile cellular: 2.02 million (1998). Radio broadcast stations: AM 851, FM 598, shortwave 16 (2000). Radios: 31 million (1997). Television broadcast stations: 236 (plus repeaters) (1997). Televisions: 25.6 million (1997). Internet Service Providers (ISPs): 51 (2000). Internet users: 3.5 million (2002).

Transportation: Railways: total: 19,510 km (2002). Highways: total: 329,532 km; paved: 108,087 km (including 6,429 km of expressways); unpaved: 221,445 km (1999 est.). Waterways: 2,900 km navigable rivers and coastal canals. Ports and harbors: Acapulco, Altamira, Coatzacoalcos, Ensenada, Guaymas, La Paz, Lazaro Cardenas, Manzanillo, Mazatlan, Progreso, Salina Cruz, Tampico, Topolobampo, Tuxpan, Veracruz. Airports: 1,823 (2002).

Bobby

nauticalstar420 · Jul 31, 2007, 02:31 PM

I dont know about the Natural Resources, but we pretty much have all of the other things that they have. I guess I can agree that Agriculturally and Industrially Mexico is okay, but the people themselves dont care about anything. The environment, education, etc. I feel that they think they've trashed their own environment all to hell and now they dont want to live in it, so they move on to the U.S. and do the same exact thing.

jillianleab · Jul 31, 2007, 02:39 PM

FTA:

Environmentalists add that highly endangered species like the antelope - the Sonoran Pronghorn of which only about 100 still exist - could be wiped out in coming years. They are used to moving across the border in search of scarce grassland.

How about we make a deal; we'll build the fence and keep the antelope. Mexico can keep their citizens.

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As far as I'm concern the U.S. might as well make Mexico the fifty-first state.

You make the assumption Mexico wants to become a part of the US. You also make the assumption all the illegal immigrants into this country are Mexican. You've also not considered the extreme difference in culture and ethics which would have to be overcome in order to take advantage of the natural resources in Mexico. Mexico is on it's way up in the world (thanks in large part to NAFTA) but they still aren't first-world. They still don't have a reasonable govt, suffer from a lot of poverty, crime, drugs, etc. I don't know about you, but I think we've got enough corruption in our govt, enough crime, poverty and drugs in our own country that we don't need to INVITE more in.

BABRAM · Jul 31, 2007, 02:45 PM

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Originally Posted by nauticalstar420

I dont know about the Natural Resources, but we pretty much have all of the other things that they have. I guess I can agree that Agriculturally and Industrially Mexico is okay, but the people themselves dont care about anything. The environment, education, etc. I feel that they think they've trashed their own environment all to hell and now they dont want to live in it, so they move on to the U.S. and do the same exact thing.

On an individual level I've seen born and raised U.S. citizens live in filth and I'd rather give credit when it's due and not all Mexicans are guilty of trashing neighborhoods. There is no doubt that if we could force a higher standard on Mexico govt that in return they can learn to do better. In fact I put the link in my original post to demonstrate they (Mexico govt) are hypocritical to call us out for not being environmentally conscience. The other issue is that Mexico has plenty of potential. With our U.S. laws on their books we would see things work for the better on both ends.

Bobby