Ask Me Help Desk - Toilet will not flush completely

Hi, I had just found this forum and this is my first post. My elderly parents live in a 2 story old home with two bathrooms, one on each floor. The toilet on the ground level flushes fine. The one upstairs will not flush solids without filling up a bucket of water and emptying it in the toilet. This has been going on now for over a year. Even as a young kid growing up in this home, some 35 years ago the upstairs toilet would require two flushes to get anything down. Now when you flush, the water rises slowly to near the top of the bowl and then drains slowly down. We are fairly certain that there is nothing plugged in the sewer line because everyone has always been careful of what was being flushed. I do not hear any gurgling anywhere but wonder if it could be a pluged vent pipe. How can I tell if this is the problem and if so, would I have two vent pipes up on the roof, one for the upstairs and one for the downstairs? The upstairs bathroom is dirctly above the downstairs one. Also who do I call to get this reasonable fixed? Could it be a problem with the toilet itself? Thank you for helping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dickwol

Hi, I had just found this forum and this is my first post. My elderly parents live in a 2 story old home with two bathrooms, one on each floor. The toilet on the ground level flushes fine. The one upstairs will not flush solids without filling up a bucket of water and emptying it in the toilet. This has been going on now for over a year. Even as a young kid growing up in this home, some 35 years ago the upstairs toilet would require two flushes to get anything down. Now when you flush, the water rises slowly to near the top of the bowl and then drains slowly down. We are fairly certain that there is nothing plugged in the sewer line because everyone has always been careful of what was being flushed. I do not hear any gurgling anywhere but wonder if it could be a pluged vent pipe. How can I tell if this is the problem and if so, would I have two vent pipes up on the roof, one for the upstairs and one for the downstairs? The upstairs bathroom is dirctly above the downstairs one. Also who do I call to get this reasonable fixed? Could it be a problem with the toilet itself? Thank you for helping.

Hi ,
I have one that most repair plumbers miss.. Look down at the bottom of the bowl. If there is a small hole, then that is a jet that starts the syphon action. If it's clogged the water will just swirl around and slowly go down leaving solids behind. Take your finger,(UGH! ) and run it around the inside of the opening. Over the years minerals build up and cut down on the syphon (flush) action. If it is rough or you feel build up, take a table knife and put a bend in it to get around the curve in the bowl and chip and scrap it clear. Next take a coathanger and clear out the holes around the rim. They start the swirling action. And last, check the water level in the tank. It should be 1/2" below the top of the over flow tube. And speaking of the overflow tube, Make sure the small 1/8" tube from the ballcock to the white overflow tube is connected so it discharges in it and that it's flowing when the ballcock fills. This is what raises the water level in the bowl. For a good solid flush they all have to work together. Hope this helps, Tom

Speedball,
I have this problem as well. Where is the syphon action hole exactly. I have cleared out the jets under the rim of the bowl already.

Thanks

Not all toilets have them. You kind of have the hole in the bottom that stuff should go down. If the little hole is there, it is on the side towards you of the big hole, maybe a little hard to see.

OK, Thank you for the suggestions. I guess that I should try these and not then worry that there is a problem with the vent? I plan on getting up to my parents home again in about a week as they are about 80 mi away. I will try to clean the holes around the rim and also the one in the bowl.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedball1

Hi ,
I have one that most repair plumbers miss.. Look down at the bottom of the bowl. If there is a small hole, then that is a jet that starts the syphon action. If it's clogged the water will just swirl around and slowly go down leaving solids behind. Take your finger,(UGH!!) and run it around the inside of the opening. Over the years minerals build up and cut down on the syphon (flush) action. If it is rough or you feel build up, take a table knife and put a bend in it to get around the curve in the bowl and chip and scrap it clear. Next take a coathanger and clear out the holes around the rim. They start the swirling action. And last, check the water level in the tank. It should be 1/2" below the top of the over flow tube. And speaking of the overflow tube, Make sure the small 1/8" tube from the ballcock to the white overflow tube is connected so it discharges in it and that it's flowing when the ballcock fills. This is what raises the water level in the bowl. For a good solid flush they all have to work together. Hope this helps, Tom

Yea, I have had this problem in a new house for 20 years (one toilet) and now it started happening on two others. After using a toilet auger with no results I was ready to buy a new toilet to see if that helped.

First I checked the net, my first hit was your answer and after ten minutes work all three flush just great after cleaning out the hole in the bottom. Such a simple answer, of course a syphon is needed to move the water down? Thanks a million.
Or should I say $600 which is what three new toilets would cost.

Jim

Quote:

Thanks a million.
Or should I say $600 which is what three new toilets would cost.

Just deposit it in my Paypal account Jim! LOL! Glad you're back up and working. Tom

My old toilet needed additional probing. I tried cleaning all the above holes with the metal hanger and I still had a weak incomplete flush.

It flushed fine dumping a bucket of water into the bowl. So, I reasoned that the vents to the outside were not necessarily the problem. The problem was the slow speed at which the tank dumped it's water into the bowl during a flush.

So, on a hunch, I rammed the metal wire into the hole under the flapper in the tank. I held the flapper open with one hand while I aimed the stiff wire hanger down and around into the opening using a jabbing motion.

This action loosened a bunch of mineral debris that migrated into the jet opening in the bowl after the next flush. The jet began to shoot brown sandy water into the bowl on flushing. But, I suspected this was good news because I had never seen the jet flow anything in the past. I was ready for jet-powered flushes!

I then cleaned the new debris from the bowl jet with the metal hanger. I had to pick pieces of mineral out by hand from the bowl jet. Now the toilet flushes turbo-powered for the first time in many years!

So, I would add cleaning the tank-to-bowl drain hole to the list of places to clean with the stiff wire hanger.

1) clean the tank-to-bowl drain hole using the wire like a chisel -- push a half a foot down and around
2) clean the jet at the bottom of the bowl -- reach deep jabbing in circles -- about 8 inches into hole
3) clean the angled holes under the rim of the bowl -- they go at a sharp sideways angle into the bowl !
4) sweep the wire into the hole in deep circular motion to try to hit the walls of the passages feeding the holes

If the above sounds like a sexual description -- you can't help it when you talk about plumbing. It just seems to sound creepy no matter how much you try to avoid it!

Of course if you really wanted a nice toilet then you could remove the entire toilet from the floor and take it apart. Remove the tank. Clean all the visible passages into the bowl and under the bottom with a chisel or screwedriver. You could still use the wire hanger to reach deeper. But, now you'd have a better view into the top of the passage that carries the water from the tank into the bowl. Your view and reach are limited when the tank is still attached to the bowl.

I would clean the chiseled areas with a Scotch plastic abrasive pad and Comet cleaning powder to get eliminate future debris buildup. Debris collects to a rough surface faster than a smooth surface. Flush the passages with a garden hose when you're done to remove hidden debris.

Disassembling the toilet would provide a longer solution fix because you can remove the debris from inside the bowl passages rather than leaving it to float around and clog the jet opening again in the near future. If you break large debris pieces they may stay floating around inside the toilet passages because they are too large to get directly into the bowl. They could cause jet cloggging again and again until you disassemble and clean them out with a hose.

Thank you Xpert,
For adding to the solutions. I haven't run into that before so this is a new one on me but it will sure help others in the future. Good thinking! Tom

Great help! I used a heavy gauge copper wire... strong enough to chip and probe yet soft enough to conform to the curved walls in the lower jet opening

Thanks for the update Xflyer.
Did that get your toilet flushing again? Tom

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Originally Posted by speedball1

Thanks for the update Xflyer.
Did that get your toilet flushing again? Tom

You bet! Saved me $200 plus and I got a hall pass to go sailing instead of replacing the throne!
Thanks, Eric

We're glad we helped. If we can be of service in the future just ask. Regards, Tom

I'm going to piggyback on this question.. I just moved into a new place, and my toilet seems to have the same problem. I'm a renter, and therefore a little nervous to try anything too involved. At first, the toilet would only completely flush every time, but my landlord adjusted the fill level of the tank and that has fixed the problem. However, it still has a VERY weak flush and almost never flushes completely. It's not clogged, because the problem hasn't gotten worse in the last couple of weeks and it does eventually flush.
I cleaned out the siphon hole as well as I could, but I do want to try the tank to bowl idea. My question is, if the toilet is slow to flush and the water level in the bowl is already quite high during a flush, is there any chance that holding the flapper open will cause the toilet to overflow? My biggest irrational fear is a malfunctioning toilet, and this one is scaring me daily..

That should say "would only flush every OTHER time"

Miner build up clogging the jet is the cause of many flush problems in areas with a high mineral content in the water. A lot of toilets have been replaced needlessly because the jet was overlooked. Glad you got yours fixed. Regards, Tom

Thanks, Tom, but I still have the question about the tank to bowl drain and holding the flapper up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by girlintransit

Thanks, Tom, but I still have the question about the tank to bowl drain and holding the flapper up?

Hey Girl,
Can you refresh my memory about the tank to bowl drain and holding the flapper up? Thanks, Tom

I want to clean the drain from the tank to the bowl as XPERT mentioned above, because the toilet still flushes very weakly and therefore usually doesn't flush all the way the first time. My question is whether holding the flapper up to clean this drain may cause the toilet to overflow? The water in the bowl is fairly high during a normal flush, and the toilet flushes slowly.

Thanks.
I went back and copied what he posted,

Quote:

on a hunch, I rammed the metal wire into the hole under the flapper in the tank. I held the flapper open with one hand while I aimed the stiff wire hanger down and around into the opening using a jabbing motion.

This action loosened a bunch of mineral debris that migrated into the jet opening in the bowl after the next flush. The jet began to shoot brown sandy water into the bowl on flushing. But, I suspected this was good news because I had never seen the jet flow anything in the past. I was ready for jet-powered flushes!

I then cleaned the new debris from the bowl jet with the metal hanger. I had to pick pieces of mineral out by hand from the bowl jet. Now the toilet flushes turbo-powered for the first time in many years!

So, I would add cleaning the tank-to-bowl drain hole to the list of places to clean with the stiff wire hanger.

1) clean the tank-to-bowl drain hole using the wire like a chisel -- push a half a foot down and around
2) clean the jet at the bottom of the bowl -- reach deep jabbing in circles -- about 8 inches into hole
3) clean the angled holes under the rim of the bowl -- they go at a sharp sideways angle into the bowl !
4) sweep the wire into the hole in deep circular motion to try to hit the walls of the passages feeding the holes

When you shut the water off to the tank and drain it can you lift the flapper and see minerals built up down there?
Back to you, Tom

The symptoms you describe indicate to me that you have a blockage in the main sewer line. The symptoms indicate that the blockage is severe but not complete and that it is far enough away from the toilet for the pipes to hold one flush of the toilet. Plunging will not clear that type of blockage. The toilet will have to be remove and the drain snaked to clear.
Depending on your capabilities you can rent a snake and do it yourself.