Ask Me Help Desk - Toilet flange height too high?

I have a question regarding the allowable height of a PVC toilet flange above a tile floor. The Oatey screw and set PVC flange insert into my 3" cast iron waste line sits on top of my new tile floor. The thickness of the flange top is 1/2" . So the flange height is 1/2" above the floor level. The flange top is screwed to the floor. I have purchased a new Kohler toilet. A dry set of the toilet on the flange gives a little front to back rocking motion. I have purchased a wax free horn/flange guide. When I have set the toilet and tightened the flange bolts, the result is even more severe rocking from front to back on the toilet flange.

1. Is the flange level too high?
2. How high above the floor level is tolerable?
3. Are there screw and set flanges with thinner than 1/2" rings?
4. Should the flange be flush with the tile floor?

Please help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flangel

I have a question regarding the allowable height of a PVC toilet flange above a tile floor. The Oatey screw and set PVC flange insert into my 3" cast iron waste line sits on top of my new tile floor. The thickness of the flange top is 1/2" . So the flange height is 1/2" above the floor level. The flange top is screwed to the floor. I have purchased a new Kohler toilet. A dry set of the toilet on the flange gives a little front to back rocking motion. I have purchased a wax free horn/flange guide. When I have set the toilet and tightened the flange bolts, the result is even more severe rocking from front to back on the toilet flange.

1. Is the flange level too high?
2. How high above the floor level is tolerable?
3. Are there screw and set flanges with thinner than 1/2" rings?
4. Should the flange be flush with the tile floor?

Please help.

1. Is the flange level too high? If the bowl rocks on the flange , yes.

2. How high above the floor level is tolerable? There is some space under the bowl. However it varies from manufacture to manufacture.

3. Are there screw and set flanges with thinner than 1/2" rings? No doubt there is but I'm begaining to wonder if you need it at all.

4. Should the flange be flush with the tile floor? in a ideal installation, yes. However, it's not absolutely necessary.

How much lower is the cast iron flange then the tile floor? If you will look on the under side of the bowl you will see a 3" horn. This horn extends down past the flange and directs the discharge past it. Also they make a wax seal with a built in funnel that does the same thing. Why jack your toilet up so it becomes a rocking chair if you can set the toilet on the tile floor, connect it to cast iron flange and have it steady?
If you still insist on retaining the oatey flange extender you could shim up bowl and set it that way. Your choice. Good luck. Tom

Tom,
Thanks for the reply.
The 3" cast iron waste line is exactly that, an iron pipe (without flange to bolt a toilet) that is an inch or so below the tile floor surface. The Oatey twist and set PVC flange is the only "adaptable to cast iron" type in the do it yourself section of Home Depot. I am trying some other local plumbing supply places to see if there are other thinner profile twist and set flanges that mount on top of the tile floor.
The wax ring with built in funnel. The funnel is designed to fit snug inside a flange and not a funnel to connect to the waste line pipe? Correct?
The next thing to investigate is different manufacturers of toilet bowls to find out if American Standard, Eljer, Toto, etc. has a deeper recess around the horn.
After I find out that there are no other style of flange or toilet, then I draw a circle around the flange, remove the twist and set, chip out all the tile and thinset so the twist and set will sit near level with the floor.
This weekend job to gut an outdated bathroom and tile and replace with new fixtures is entering it's third weekend. My saga continues.
Thanks again.
Chris

Quote:

Originally Posted by flangel

Tom,
Thanks for the reply.
The 3" cast iron waste line is exactly that, an iron pipe (without flange to bolt a toilet) that is an inch or so below the tile floor surface. The Oatey twist and set PVC flange is the only "adaptable to cast iron" type in the do it yourself section of Home Depot. I am trying some other local plumbing supply places to see if there are other thinner profile twist and set flanges that mount on top of the tile floor.
The wax ring with built in funnel. the funnel is designed to fit snug inside a flange and not a funnel to connect to the waste line pipe? correct?
The next thing to investigate is different manufacturers of toilet bowls to find out if American Standard, Eljer, Toto, etc. has a deeper recess around the horn.
After I find out that there are no other style of flange or toilet, then I draw a circle around the flange, remove the twist and set, chip out all the tile and thinset so the twist and set will sit near level with the floor.
This weekend job to gut an outdated bathroom and tile and replace with new fixtures is entering it's third weekend. My saga continues.
Thanks again.
Chris

Hi Chris,

Will this help? http://www.quickfixplumbingproducts.com/ Also a wax seal with a attached funnel directs the discharge past the flange and down into the pipe. Cheers, Tom

Tom,
Asked some questions at a local plumbing supply store. 20 year master plumber said that the flange should sit on top of the finished tile. (I think this is only true in a remodel retrofit situation. With this advice I went back home to make it work.
I secured the flange to floor with more screws. Cracked a little corner of tile under the flange ring, but oh well. Kohler Wellworth bowl. The little support hooves under the bowl next to the horn stuck out 1/16" below the plane of the bottom ring. Even a dry set onto the flange gives way to a little front to back rocking. Took the bowl into the back yard, flipped it over, ground the porclein hooves down so the toilet could sit level without acting like a teeter-totter. Back inside, onto a secured flange I used a wax ring with rubber guide. Set, squish, tighten closet flange bolts, and with a tiny wood shim on the front edge of the bowl, I'm sitting with out rocking. I think that most of my rocking came from the support hooves, and the flexing of the insecure PVC flange.
If it is going to go wrong, it usually happens to me.
Thanks again for your help.
Chris

They sell plastic/rubber shims that don't rot for your toilet shims. Sorry I didn't see this sooner

Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommytman

They sell plastic/rubber shims that don't rot for your toilet shims. Sorry I didn't see this sooner

Tom

Yes, tommy gave you good advice. Wood shims will rot. Use sheet lead or plastic shims good luck, tom

The best toilet shims to use are the ones that are soft and flexible. The hard ones work too... but I like the soft one much better.

I get them from Lowe's in the Plumbpak package or in bulk from wobblewedge.com

The cool thing is you can use just a sliver of the shim to set the toilet perfectly level. The soft shims are easy to trim off... I just use a pocket knife.