I am not totally unfamiliar with plumbing, but this one has me stumped. I flush the toilet before I go to bed. In the morning the water level in the bowl has dropped a couple of inches. When the toilet is flushed there appears to be an air bubble which comes up, but the toilet flushes almost fully. The next flushes are fine and as long as the toilet doesn't sit without use it appears to work normally. I have gone out for the entire day and upon return the bowl level is low and the problem occurs.

I'm not sure where the water is going. Is it possible there is a minor clog in the trap which causes it to lose suction and some water goes down the drain after a couple of hours? Is it possible since we're in a condo that there is a big pull on the main causing this water loss. I see no loss of water around the base of the toilet and my unit is right above the lobby and the lobby ceiling looks dry. I'd suspect a loss if it weren't for the bubbling up. Thank you for your help.

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Originally Posted by richpoland

I am not totally unfamiliar with plumbing, but this one has me stumped. I flush the toilet before I go to bed. In the morning the water level in the bowl has dropped a couple of inches. When the toilet is flushed there appears to be an air bubble which comes up, but the toilet flushes almost fully. The next flushes are fine and as long as the toilet doesn't sit without use it appears to work normally. I have gone out for the entire day and upon return the bowl level is low and the problem occurs.

I'm not sure where the water is going. Is it possible there is a minor clog in the trap which causes it to lose suction and some water goes down the drain after a couple of hours? Is it possible since we're in a condo that there is a big pull on the main causing this water loss. I see no loss of water around the base of the toilet and my unit is right above the lobby and the lobby ceiling looks dry. I'd suspect a loss if it weren't for the bubbling up. Thank you for your help.

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Hi Rich,

You may have have more then one problem. There could be a factory defect in the bowl. Sometimes in casting the bowl there is a small bubble in the china. Instead of junking the bowl the manufacture will put a porcelain patch over the hole and send it on through. On occasion the patch will fail allowing the water to seep out of the bowl. If that's the case you would have a full bowl after you flushed and the bowl filled but some hours later you would notice a drop in the bowl level. The answer to that is to replace the bowl. As for the "bubble" of air. If there was a partial clog in the drain line the discharge from the flush hits it and rebounds back sending a bubble of air back up the line. Now if it were a "gurgle" instead of a "bubble" you'd have a vent blockage. Good luck, Tom

Tom,
Thank you very much for getting back to me. This condo was built in 1985 and I can't imagine the patch just gave out now. I guess that I might have a "gurgle" rather than a bubble. If so, how do I clean a blocked vent?

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Originally Posted by richpoland

Tom,
Thank you very much for getting back to me. This condo was built in 1985 and I can't imagine the patch just gave out now. I guess that I might have a "gurgle" rather than a bubble. If so, how do I clean a blocked vent?

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Ahh! By changing from a "bubble to a "gurgle" you have just explained the drop in the water level in the bowl. Flushing or discharging a drain sets up a vacuum in the drain line that is relieved by the bathroom,(lavatory) vent. If the vent isn't operating or is blocked then the suction attempts to relieve itself by venting through the nearest available fixture. Since it can not pull air through the toilet trap the suction pulls water out of the bowl.
Let me explain about vents. When you pull a plug or flush a toilet the water going down the pipe sets up a suction. This has to be relieved by outside air. Hence a pipe through your roof. If the vent is blocked by a birds nest or a dead critter the water will pull suction through the nearest trap and you will hear a gurgle. It may be a fixture trap or the toilet may talk to you but you will hear it someplace. And now you know about vents.
Since you live in a condo your drainage and vents are shared systems. You should contact the maintenance guy or the condo manager and explain your problem. Good luck, Tom

Tom,
Thanks again, but I'm still a bit confused. I have observed this situation more closely now and I can report a bit more information. With the water level low, water shoots out of the hole above the toilet's main drain hole, when you flush. It may be that this occurs under water when the level is right and you don't notice it, so it may be normal.
I've looked for the venting with no luck. If I'm having this problem, do you think other people in the condo are having the same problem, or is it just my luck to have the closet toilet to where the venting should take place? I was thinking of posting a note on the board in the lobby to see if anyone else is experience this difficulty.
I have access to the roof and I guess I can go up and look for any vent that looks like it's clogged/blocked. Again, thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by richpoland

Tom,
Thanks again, but I'm still a bit confused. I have observed this situation more closely now and I can report a bit more information. With the water level low, water shoots out of the hole above the toilet's main drain hole, when you flush. It may be that this occurs under water when the level is right and you don't notice it, so it may be normal.
I've looked for the venting with no luck. If I'm having this problem, do you think other people in the condo are having the same problem, or is it just my luck to have the closet toilet to where the venting should take place? I was thinking of posting a note on the board in the lobby to see if anyone else is experience this difficulty.
I have access to the roof and I guess I can go up and look for any vent that looks like it's clogged/blocked. Again, thank you very much.

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Hey Rich,
Water is supposed to shoot out of the little hole. You have a siphon jet toilet and that's the jet that starts the flush. Talk to the the maintenance department and see what they say. Ask your neighbors directly above and below you and see if they have the same problem. Something's pulling the water out of the bowl. It's one of two things, a crack in the bowl or suction from a blocked vent. Let me know what you find out. Tom

On a similar note, I'm also having problems with my toilet bowl water level.

I recently had to replace the subflooring in my bathroom. Before I had to do that, the toilet bowl water level was normal- meaning about 1/4 to 1/3 full. It's a Crane toilet; I'm not sure what model. It kind of came with the house...

At any rate, once we reinstalled the toilet, the water level has shrunk from 1/4 to 1/3 full, all the way down to just covering the hole in the bottom of the toilet.

Now, unfortunately, I am pretty much completely ignorant to plumbing problems. I had a friend come over and redo the flooring in my bathroom.

Some other possibly helpful bits of information:

1.) This is a basement bathroom; it sits on a raised section ooh, about 1/2 a foot off the concrete floor.

2.) The toilet bowl sits directly above the sewage tank, right next to the sump pump (or whatever it's really called- the one for sewage). In my friend's words, the entire bathroom was "Mickey Moused," and the only way he would have been able to fix it properly would have been to tear it out completely and rebuild it. Not really a project I wanted to have to tackle at the moment. But he was worried that this might cause a bit of a problem, as the weight of the toilet sits directly above the tank, and there's no real supports nearby to support the plywood we put down over it. However, we used 3/4 inch plywood over everything, so it SHOULD be okay... hopefully...

3.) We ended up raising the floor level by about 1/4 inch, which caused a bit of trouble with the flange level, and the base of the toilet. I don't remember how we ended up getting it to work; I thinke we used a flange extender, and male threads with connectors. But, if I remember correctly (and I'm fairly sure, because that was a major concern), contact WAS made with the wax ring all the way around.

Please let me know if you need any extra bits of information to make an accurate suggestion as to how to fix this.

Hi Emily.
As promised here I am. There may have been a patch over a bubble that you disturbed but there is something I want you to check for me before we go any farther. Take the lid off the tank and look inside. There should be a small 1/8th inch tube that connects to the top of the ball cock and then goes into the big white overflow tube. If it came out then position it so it shoots down into the overflow tube. Now flush and see if it's shooting water down the overflow tube. This is the water that fills the bowl level and if it's disconnected or not functioning the level will be low in the bowl. Get back to me with the results. Regards, Tom

Hrm;

Yep, it looked all right. Water ran down (and even overflowed a bit) when I flushed it.


Thanks for your help, by the way!!

Whoe!
"Yep, it looked all right. Water ran down (and even overflowed a bit) when I flushed it."
Are you saying that the overflow tube filled up and overflowed?
It shouldn't overflow, the water should go down into the bowl to fill it. There is one more thing tyhar would pull the water out of your bowl. Ifthe holding tank wasn't properly vented when the pump kicked in to lift the sewage it could put a suction on the trap seal in the toilet bowl and suck the water right out of da bowl. Have the vent checked. Regards, Tom

Yep; when it first started flushing, the water overflow tube filled up, overflowed a bit, then drained. The water then flowed down as it was (apparently) supposed to.

And as far as venting on the sewage tank, what kind of venting are we talking about? Should there be a hole in it? Should there be a venting pipe that leads to the outside? I'm befubbled. :(

Thanks again for your help!

There should be a vent running from the holding tank out the roof. If you have a sink or lavatory it must be vented also. The two vents may not be combined. Cheers Tom