Hi, This is my first post to these forums, I've been going nuts trying to find an answer to this question.

But first, let me thank Speedball for posting a part of a plumbing code dealing with cutting and notching load bearing walls. 2 1/8 inch bit through the top plates of an exterior wall mid way between truss. No need to use a strap because of the exception (entire wall structural sheathing) but I probably will because... well... I wear both suspenders and a belt.

Here's the question (and conundrum):

I'm installing a 2" clothes washer drain of PVC in an exterior wall. I bought a washer box but it didn't take long to realize it would be near imposable to fit the trap in the wall and plumb it to the box without a couple of 45s and 90s and some magic getting the vent line to the trap outlet and running the pressure lines. Not to mention being in North Ohio right off of Erie and it gets COLD. I don't want t6o cramp all this into an exterior wall as it could compromise insulation (not much room) and result in freezing.

I'm thinking of running a 32 ~ 34" standpipe through the bottom plate, two wide 90s continuing compromise down (to get around the foundation block) and into a P-Trap, then a vent fitting.

It's the 90s that are causing me a head scratcher. I know sending the water through the two 90s will work, but will it pass inspection? I have been looking for a reference on standpipe 'shape', if it can be 'convoluted' or if the standpipe has to be straight into the trap.

??

Truth is, this is how it's getting plumbed, I need to know if or how much to duck when the inspector see's it.

In days of old I would probably have had no problem finding an answer. I would have gone to the library and looked in a/the code book. Darn time crunch.

Before posting this I scanned 5 pages of subjects and read quite a few threads (back to Aug 13th or so) in this forum. I see lots of problems with new washing machines powerful pumps and draining, suds back ups and other stuff. All of which I wish to avoid.

You see, this is my Mother in Laws new kitchen/laundry addition, I can't afford to screw this up.

It's bad enough the trap has a return bend in it to impede the discharge but you wish to add two more 90's to the drain? A cardinal law of drainage is keep it straight with as few bends as possible. With today's more powerful washer pumps it's important to keep the pipes 2" and the drain line free from bends. Forget the washer box if you can't work it in and bring the trap and a 36" (at least) standpipe up outside the wall. I have drawn up a rough sketch of what I mean,(see image). Let me know if this works for you. Regards, Tom

Thanks, Tom.

Yeah, I know it sounds nuts to put two sweeping turns into a standpipe, but I'm fighting for every inch here. The exteded family talked Mother in law into this project, had plans drawn up, changed the layout during construction, then abandoned it. Thus it lands in the oldest daughters husbands lap. Me. Why didn't they include me even though Daddy put a hammer in my hand in the mid 60s? There is a whole family dynamic going on here, I'm the outsider because I'm pragmatic and they love Drama.

Now that you have been brought up to speed, sort of, on this situation, Yes, I know all lines are to be as straight as I can make them, to me that's obvious. I looked at the installation of two sweeper Ells long and hard. I even cursed about my clueless in-laws, But...

I've been pushed into a corner more ways than one. Anything I put outside of the wall is going to cause a traffic problem from the new rear entry into the kitchen by moving the washer further into the walkway.

If I was a Pro-Plumber I wouldn't do it, maybe I would if the person having me do the work signed off on it after having it explaned to them.

Right now I'm concerned about it getting past the inspector. If it won't pass inspection the standpipe gets moved. If it gets through inspection and there is ever the slightest problem it gets moved.

But right now the question is, will it get through inspection?

BTW, the distance between the bottom of the traps outlet and the top of the standpipe will be between 42 and 48 inches.

To give you an idea of the goat rope handed me, my extended family allowed the ledger board and truss hedder to be nailed with 10 pennies to 1x8 sub siding in an 80 ~ 100 year old house. The ledger was nailed to half rotten wood, and the truss hedder wasn't level.

" the distance between the bottom of the traps outlet and the top of the standpipe will be between 42 and 48 inches."

That's not my concern. How far is it from the top of the standpipe to the first 90? Cheers, Tom PS. If I were faced with this I would back out of the job gracefully.

A minimum of 32 inches. Going from memory from direct measurement and guessing at subtracting P and Ells, 34 to 38 inches from the top of the standpipe to the first Ell.

I wish I could back out of this BUT... That would leave my Mother in law with the *()#*$&#_)@$* that got her into this position.

I can't say how the inspector is going to look at this, (BTW, why are you pulling a permit for such a little job?) but be prepaired to add a compression fitting on to the top of the standpipe to seal in the hose to prevent backups when the washer's draining. Regards, Tom

I guess I'll be finding out.



It's a new 20x12 addition on the back of her house with the washer on the right wall, kitchen sink on the back wall, the drain line entering the existing structure at the left wall and ending in the old kitchen drain line which ran from the old first floor kitchen to the basement floor. 3" vent stack with 1 1/2 inch vent lines. All new water lines.


The old water system was a rats nest of piping, when I dropped it the In Law could see the nside of the houses old galvanized water main so that got replaced too.

Mother in law lives in Cleveland and got a permit for the structure. We didn't need the inspector to show up for the final with us not having a permit for over 100 feet of new water lines and (guessing) about 75 feet of new drain and vent lines.



Thanks.

There are a few code points to make here:

A clotheswasher standpipe can be no less than 18 inches and no more than 30 inches in developed length.

A standpipe must be vertical -- The two 90's you suggest using would mean that at least part of the standpipe would be horizontal.

You also need to realize that there are different sweeps of 90's for different applications; For instance - The only time a medium sweep 90 is considered a drainage fitting is when the flow is going from horizontal to vertical.

Most plumbing inspectors will overlook a slightly longer standpipe, especially if it's the homeowner doing the work, but it's doubtful the double offset will fly.

Barring photo's of the framing situation you're facing, I don't think I can be much help in helping you to lay this out.

Looking over Growlers post I find a few points that I might find a problem with.
But first I agree with his statement, "it's doubtful the double offset will fly."
Get rid of the dog leg in the stand pipe.

"There are a few code points to make here: A clotheswasher standpipe can be no less than 18 inches and no more than 30 inches in developed length."

This has just got to be a local code. Nowhere in my Standard Plumbing Code Book by the Building Code Congress International does it say this.
We have allways installed our standpipes 36" above the trap but in no circumstances do we install a stand pipe that's lower then the flood rim of the washer. And that's not just "code" it's good plumbing sense.

Wart, There's just got to be a way that you can configure the stand pipe without the offsets. Perhaps it means more work and expense but since you're obviously committed to this project you got to find a way
Good luck in whatever you decide. Tom

"There are a few code points to make here: A clotheswasher standpipe can be no less than 18 inches and no more than 30 inches in developed length."

This has just got to be a local code. Nowhere in my Standard Plumbing Code Book by the Building Code Congress International does it say this.
We have allways installed our standpipes 36" above the trap but in no circumstances do we install a stand pipe that's lower then the flood rim of the washer. And that's not just "code" it's good plumbing sense.

I was referring to section 804.1 of the Uniform Plumbing Code which states:

"No standpipe receptor for any clotheswasher shall extend more than thirty inches, nor less than eighteen inches above it's trap."

Of course the important point to consider here is that not all jurisdictions and municipalities adopt the same sources for their code requirements.

Some have adopted the UPC as their standard, as we have here in Washington State, while others have adopted the SPC as their standards.

Attached Images

ch8.pdf (57.9 KB, 592 views)

Growler,
I accept your explanation but do have any idea of the backwash that would be created by a standpipe 18" from trap to terminal with todays more powerful washer pumps? And reducing the length of the stand pipe also reduces the volume it will hold before it overflows. I'm runninginto a volume problem with 1 1/2" stand pipes and traps. I'm advising installing a compression fitting on the standpipe to seal the hose and prevent backups.
I'm glad none of our areas codes dictate a 30" stand pipe. The San Tee and Trap would have to be dead on the floor level to get the stand pipe up over 37 or 38" off the floor to be over the flood rim of the washer.
You sound like you might be a plumber. If so, welcome to the plumbing page. We can use all the help we can get and I could sure use a sharp plumber to keep me straight and make corrections when I slip up. Tom

A follow-on to this question. I am tapping into an existing 2" drain to add a washer, and the trap ended up pretty high in the wall. What's the absolute minimum drop you would use from the box to the trap? 18" And/or secondly, how high up the wall is it reasonable to put the box (min 36", is there a max?)