[patf1engineer]

I have a contractor installing a bathroom in my basement as part of a remodel. The area for the bathroom had rough ins for the toilet and the sink from when the house was built (about 18 years ago). The sink was installed and seems to be working fine. We have tried two different toilets and can not get them to work properly. The water will not drain out of the bowl with any force, it pretty much trickles out.

He has tried to snake the drain line with a 25' snake and has run water through the drain with a garden hose. We have also tried adjusting the amount of water in the tank or pouring more water into the bowl, but have not had any better results.

Any ideas on a possible problem or solution? At this point I am not willing to install an upflowing toilet since this would cause substantial rework of the remodelling. I would also resist doing anything that would be below or within the slab for the same reason. Thanks.

I will probably get someone to run a cam down it after we get back from vacation. I also want to, shall we say, try it out a few times to determine just how much of a problem it really is. I am not inclined to tear up my brand new $17,000 basement without a really good reason.

[ballengerb1]

If rough ins were in the floor you do not need a up flush toilet. What kind of contractor is he and does he have enough experience to adjust the float and flush valve in the toilet? Does the tank fill within 1" of the top of the over flow tube, if so does the flapper open all the way and then take about 5-8 seconds to flpa back down?

[patf1engineer]

He is a general contractor with decent amount of experience, he seems to know what he is talking about. He tried adjusting fill but had no effect. Flapper does stay open, in fact I have tried holding it open for longer to see if that made any difference. Have tried 2 different toilets from 2 different manufacturers, both big names in industry with highly rated toilets but have similar results. He is bringing a plumber on Wednesday to look at it but I wanted to get some other opinions.

[mygirlsdad77]

Please let us know what the plumber finds.

[speedball1]

You might check this out. In my capacity as shop trouble shooter I began to run into a slew of complaints on our new construction that were just like yours. I knew they all couldn't be " bad toilets" so I went looking for the cause. I found that when installing the new bowl that the wax ring had been forced out into the discharge pipe and blocking the free flow of water. When the water hit it a backpressure was set up preventing the siphon that makes a good flush and the solids just swirled around while the water went slowly down. I had to set up meeting with our plumbers and show them the problem and how to fix it. When you set the bowl, put the wax seal down on the flat side to the closet flange. Then take your hands and bevel the wax seal outward so that when you set a bowl on it the wax is forced out instead of in blocking the flush. The customer complaints stopped and I had less work to do. Try molding the wax seal so it doesn't choke down on the flush. Good luck, Tom

[patf1engineer]

I will pass that on to my guy. He thought that the wax ring was blocking the outlet at first which is why he tried to reset both of the toilets. The second one I got has a larger outlet because I suspected it might still be the problem.

[patf1engineer]

Here is an update on this situation.

I passed on the suggestion on the wax ring to my contractor. He says he already does that.

He contacted a plumber who was supposed to come out with a camera, examine the line, and then snake it out. When the plumber came out, he said he was not told to bring his camera (not sure who to believe but, frankly, I am inclined to believe my contractor), only to snake the line which he did and charged me $150.

After he snaked out the line it did appear to flow better where we can see it through a vent pipe in my front yard. However, they noted there was still water lying in the pipe at the rough in. There is about 6" of water in the pipe above the elbow. The level stays constant regardless of how much water I blast down there with a garden hose.

I took measurements from the ground and bathroom floor to the bottom of the pipe. I am estimating there is about 18" to 20" of fall over about 30' in the pipe. I initially speculated that, for some reason, when the house was built a trap of something similar was put in the rough in.

Contractor reinstalled the toilet and it still does not flush properly, although it is slightly better.

I called the plumber. He is saying the only thing it could be is an improperly laid drain pipe causing back pressure on the drain line. He said the only way they can check that is to use their camera which would cost another $150. I took the liberty of reminding him he was supposed to bring it the first time. I asked him for a ball park estimate to correct the problem, and he is telling me about $3500.

I will leave my response to him to your imagination.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated. I am inclined to do nothing. We have not really had a chance to try the toilet out enough to determine if it functions well enough to just ignore the problem.

[speedball1]

However, they noted there was still water lying in the pipe at the rough in. There is about 6" of water in the pipe above the elbow. The level stays constant regardless of how much water I blast down there with a garden hose.

Tell me more about this?

there was still water lying in the pipe at the rough in.

"At the rough in? Tells me nothing. What are you referring to? Also,
[QUOTEThere is about 6" of water in the pipe above the elbow. The level stays constant [/QUOTE] What pipe? What elbo?" Are you saying that the water level has filled a 4" pipe and is 2 inches higher? Please be more specific. Regards, tom

[patf1engineer]

At the rough in at the concrete floor, the drain pipe drops straight down about 16". There is a 90 degree elbow at the bottom. There is water "backed up" about 5" to 6" deep at the elbow coming up the pipe. However, no matter how much water I hose down there or at what rate (I also tried pouring water down it from a bucket to simulate the toilet flushing) the water level does not seem to significantly change. It does not back up from the flow of the hose, and it does not back up when the toilet flushes. It just never goes all the way down.

[speedball1]

From what you've told me I would suspect a bell in the drain line. While it's not good plumbing practice it doesn't necessary mean the end of the world. We do that on purpose and call it a house or running trap. If the bell isn't deep enough to cause a back up,( and from what you say every thing drains OK) I wouldn't start to jack hammer the cement up just yet. I would "sewer cam" the line to see how far the bell runs but until it presents a problem.
Is The toilet that's giving you a problem on this line? Let me know, Tom