[PalmMP3]

Hi all,

My friend and I are converting an old apartment kitchen into a laundry room. What we have to work with is the following (surveying the wall from left to right): a gas stub-out (we'll worry about the dryer later); a few feet to the right there are the bodies of two gate (or globe?) valves sticking horizontally from the wall a few inches apart (3/4" iron pipe thread outlets pointing upward about 1 or 2 inches from the wall); and about a foot after that, a little lower down, a two-inch drain opening in the wall in the form of a female-threaded, presumably cast-iron pipe that ends flush with the wall surface. (If you've been following what I'm saying, you'll notice that for some reason, the drain is NOT centered between the water pipes like one might expect from a former kitchen sink.)

We plan to install a washer and gas dryer. The object of the game here is to get the job done as cheaply as possible, even at the expense of a few minor code violations if absolutely necessary (i.e. were NOT going to do anything stupid and dangerous like not trapping the drain, but we don't care about, for example, a drain pipe that's a half-an-inch too small - as long as it works in real life). So here are some questions:

Does the code require that a [utility] sink be installed?
The drain seems to be my responsibility, so I'd like some advice on how do do it. Can I just install a New York P-trap* by screwing it into the hole in the wall, and then attach a free-standing pipe several feet high for the washer?
Or does the vertical pipe need to be secured against something?
Also, the inlet on a NY Trap is actually 1-1/2" - is this enough for a washer drain?
How high does the pipe have to be - I know it has to be at least six inches higher than the flood-rim, but since the washer probably won't arrive 'til next week, is there a "standard height" I can assume in the meantime so I can get to work?
If I indeed have to install a sink, what's the best (read: cheapest way that will work without flagrantly violating any codes) way to drain both the washer and sink into the same 2" hole? Can I just hook up the sink, and drape the washer hose over the rim of the sink?

And does anyone have any other tips/comments/things to look out for?

I'd love to post a picture of the work site, but my camera is currently touring Europe. :( If I can borrow someone else's, I'll post a picture ASAP.

Thanks in advance!
Moishe



*New York P-trap: For some reason, local codes in NY seem to require a "choke trap" (i.e. a trap with a 1-1/2" vertical inlet, but a 2" horizontal outlet) with a cleanout cap on the bottom. For a change, I actually like NY's stricter codes - that cleanout cap is darned useful. :D

[speedball1]

Hey Moshie,

First off, code does not require a utility sink in the laundry room. So we won't hassle the sink.
I would feel better if knew how high the threaded connection,(2" clean out) was off the floor. Figure the height of a top loading washer at 36" so make the stand pipe 2 inches over at 38" off the floor. Since I don't know of any cleanout trap with a 2" MIP thread you will have to convert. If the threaded fitting in the wall is close enough to the floor to use. Thread in a 2" Midland Bushing and solder in a piece of 2" copper if you're going metal.(The trap will be metal won't it? Will it fit in a 2" piece of copper like a 1 1/2" trap tail fits into a 1 1/2" stubout?) After the trap's connected you can turn it 90 degrees so it will hug the wall. You can then secure the 1 1/2" stand pipe to the wall with pipe straps. My stand pipe's 1 1/2 and is still operating after 51 years.
Another way would be to install a laundry tray and discharge the washer into that. Whichever works out best for you. Regards, Tom

[PalmMP3]

I would feel better if knew how high the threaded connection,(2" clean out) was off the floor.

Well, I didn't have a tape measure with me the last time I was at the job site, but I had the foresight to "measure" the height of the hole by making due with the tools I had. Specifically, the center of the hole is approximately the height of a Bernz-o-Matic MAPP gas can. :D:D:D

Since I don't know of any cleanout trap with a 2" MIP thread you will have to convert.

I would love to post a picture of one of my kitchen sink traps, but like I said before, my camera is in Europe. So after digging around a little, here's what I found on the web. (You can click on any of the items in the "Part Number" column to see a diagram of what a NY trap looks like.) As you can see from the chart, parts no. 204 and 205 have 2" F.I.P.S. outlets. (I don't know if the traps in my home kitchen are made by McGuire per se, but one thing is for sure: the all match the description for part no. 204.) Anyway, in theory I should be able to screw in a 2" threaded nipple (if there is such a thing; but I'm assuming there is) into the hole in the wall, then screw a NY trap into that. So that takes care of the trap. Does that sound OK to you?

Now, the standpipe is another story. I was thinking the easy (but perhaps more expensive) way to do it is to pick up a couple of brass drain fittings (the kind the sell in any hardware store in pre-cut pieces - either straight or with a sweep at one end - in pre-cut lengths, each piece with a brass slip-nut on one end) and play jigsaw puzzle with them 'til I get it right - i.e. first a sweep or two to the wall, then a few straight pieces coupled vertically until the required height is reached. Is that OK, or does a standpipe have to be (or is it better if it is) one piece? Or is there a better/cheaper way than using the brass fittings I mentioned?

The trap will be metal won't it?

I think we have a miscommunication here: as far as I know, these NY traps are not required for washers and the like, only sinks (and maybe even only kitchen sinks). I merely mentioned it may be a good idea to use one since this is a former kitchen, the existing drainhole will probably be more accommodating to a NY trap.

Therefore, the trap doesn't HAVE to be metal - it was just the easiest idea I could think of off the top of my head. If you have a better idea, I'm all ears.

Another way would be to install a laundry tray and discharge the washer into that. Whichever works out best for you.

I don't know what the heck a laundry tray is, so I think we can safely assume that it won't be needed. :D

[speedball1]

Hey Moshie,
"in theory I should be able to screw in a 2" threaded nipple (if there is such a thing; but I'm assuming there is) into the hole in the wall, then screw a NY trap into that. So that takes care of the trap. Does that sound OK to you?"

Sounds like the only way to me. The NY trap not having a "J" bend that swivels to give you a few inches offset to play with when connecting the trap makes the plumber be bang on with the stubout or use fittings to adjust the connection. This is the first time I've ever dealt with a NY trap. Makes me wonder what else is lurking in the plumbing code.

Another way would be to install a laundry tray and discharge the washer into that. Whichever works out best for you.

"I don't know what the heck a laundry tray is, so I think we can safely assume that it won't be needed."

A laundry tray is just another way to say, "Utility Sink".
Let me know what you decide.

"Now, the standpipe is another story. I was thinking the easy (but perhaps more expensive) way to do it is to pick up a couple of brass drain fittings (the kind the sell in any hardware store in pre-cut pieces - either straight or with a sweep at one end - in pre-cut lengths, each piece with a brass slip-nut on one end) and play jigsaw puzzle with them 'til I get it right - i.e. first a sweep or two to the wall, then a few straight pieces coupled vertically until the required height is reached. Is that OK, or does a standpipe have to be (or is it better if it is) one piece? Or is there a better/cheaper way than using the brass fittings I mentioned?"

Moshie, don't dog leg a stand pipe. It should be one piece from the trap. And if possible keep the washer stand pipe trap at 2" and go to a plumbing shop to get a piece of copper cut to length. To secure the standpipe to the wall secure a small length of 2X4 to the wall with cement screws. You may then build it out by nailing 2X4 blocks to it until you've built out to the standpipe where it may be secured to the blocks with a pipe strap. Cheers, Tom

[PalmMP3]

I'm going to have to think about this a little.

By the way, is a floor drain required by code?

And while we're at it, are there any other basic things that the code might require that I'm missing?

[speedball1]

"By the way, is a floor drain required by code?"

A floor drain is a good idea in a utility room but not mandated by code.

"And while we're at it, are there any other basic things that the code might require that I'm missing?"

Not by my code book but I'm not familiar with NY local codes. Cheers, Tom