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    florencehere's Avatar
    florencehere Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jan 9, 2008, 04:01 PM
    Repipe or reline pipes?
    I'm a lady who lives alone and knows nothing about plumbing but I've been getting estimates and it's so confusing. I will appreciate any help.

    My house is 24 years old with galvanized pipes. It's 1300 sq ft. with 2 baths, 1 kitchen sink, washer, and dishwasher. I've had three pin hole leaks in the attic in 3 years and was told it will keep happening. I've been getting estimates for repiping or relining the pipes. Relining will cost me twice as much so will probably have the pipes replaced just in the attic.

    Is CPVC OK to use? - can't afford copper. Is PEX much more expensive than CPVC? I think it's better but what is a fair price? I've gotten prices from $2,000 up to $4,800. What questions do I need to ask the plumber to make sure it's being done properly? I can't afford to pay and not have the work done correctly. Thanks for your help.
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #2

    Jan 9, 2008, 04:15 PM
    Hi.. just need to be clear on issues at hand... are we talking water pipes here.. Or, are we talking waste/vent pipes..

    If we are talking waste/vent pipes I suggest using P.V.C. (polyvinylchloride) pipe OR A.B.S. (acetylbutylstyrene.. I think) pipe... depends on what is required by the plumbing inspector in your town ( I suggest calling him anyway just to bounce ideas of him and/or to help you find a reputable/fair plumber in your area).

    If we are talking water pipes then I would recommend using either PEX or CPVC pipe... both are fine for water. Once again, call your local plumbing inspector. He should be able to refer you to a trustworthy plumber. Good luck!

    If this answer was helpful please press and rate my answer... :)
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,378, Reputation: 2280
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    #3

    Jan 9, 2008, 04:23 PM
    How many quotes have you gotten, get at minimum of 3. Ask them to specify inwriting what materials they recommend or you could just tell them you want two estimates, one for CPVC and one for PEX. You can better compare apples to apples that way. Your old pipe really must go so the sooner the better with your decision. I think you'll find the PEX bid much higher than CPVC.
    doug238's Avatar
    doug238 Posts: 1,560, Reputation: 62
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    #4

    Jan 10, 2008, 04:57 AM
    What area do you live in? In Florida about 7 years ago I estimated repipes at 100 dollars per drop. This price was for plumbing only, and in cpvc. One sink is 2 drops, one dishwasher is one drop, one icemaker is one drop, one lavatory is 2 drops, one tub is 2 drops, one toilet is one drop, one outside faucet is one drop, one washing machine is two drops, one water heater is 2 drops. Your situation as you described it is 16 drops. At 100 per drop that is 1600 dollars. That same job in atlanta is 150 per drop in cpvc and 250 per drop in copper. It is totally not a good idea to do a partial repipe. It will usually not satisfy the problem and have to pay more to get it done right. Cpvc is more popular than pex. Pex is faster but the material splits easier than cpvc. Also, rodents love to nibble on plastic piping.
    florencehere's Avatar
    florencehere Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Jan 10, 2008, 07:53 AM
    [I] live in Houston, TX and these are water pipes in my attic. I wish I could afford to change out the pipes in the walls at the same time but not sure if I can swing it. Is the cost a lot more for those pipes? So far I've not had any leaks in the walls. Also there's the added expense of repairing the walls afterward. Do rodents nibble on CPVP also because that's probably what I'll have to go with.

    Also what questions should I ask the plumber about the way he will install the new pipes? Securing them or insulating them or removing old pipes? Any ideas?

    Thanks so much for your help, Florence
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,378, Reputation: 2280
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    #6

    Jan 10, 2008, 08:58 AM
    I am not familiar withHouston weather so tell us about your coldest days in the winter. Were the old pipes insulated, if not then it may not be needed in your area. One question for each plumber is are they licensed to work in Houston and use CPVC? Building codes vary from state to state regarding CPVC installation and priming. Some states allow purple primer while others do not.
    florencehere's Avatar
    florencehere Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Jan 10, 2008, 10:42 AM
    In Houston we have a couple of freezes a year and they're usually light one. Temps rarely get below 30 and then only a few days a year. I probably don't need the insulation in the attic but wondered if I needed to ask how the installation was to be done. Thanks for your reply.
    doug238's Avatar
    doug238 Posts: 1,560, Reputation: 62
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    #8

    Jan 10, 2008, 11:09 AM
    Ask your plumber if he has liability insurance and request a certificate of insurance. Note, you don't use primer on cpvc pipe or fittings.
    florencehere's Avatar
    florencehere Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #9

    Jan 10, 2008, 01:37 PM
    OK, I feel more confident going into this now and I want to thank you guys for all your help. I'll take your advice and try to ask the right questions.
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,378, Reputation: 2280
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    #10

    Jan 10, 2008, 02:12 PM
    Different states have different codes. Purple primer is used for both PVC and CPVC in many states. OATEY 30780 Purple Primer/Cl. f/ PVC/CPVC Pipe & Fitt., 4oz Iamgrowler recently pointed out it is not allowed in his state of Washington. You can just imagine what California's code specify.
    doug238's Avatar
    doug238 Posts: 1,560, Reputation: 62
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    #11

    Jan 10, 2008, 04:18 PM
    On the manufacturer instructions on installing cpvc it tells you to use no primer for glue joints
    iamgrowler's Avatar
    iamgrowler Posts: 1,421, Reputation: 110
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    #12

    Jan 10, 2008, 05:42 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by florencehere
    [I] live in Houston, TX and these are water pipes in my attic. I wish I could afford to change out the pipes in the walls at the same time but not sure if I can swing it. Is the cost a lot more for those pipes? So far I've not had any leaks in the walls. Also there's the added expense of repairing the walls afterward. Do rodents nibble on CPVP also because that's probably what I'll have to go with.

    Also what questions should I ask the plumber about the way he will install the new pipes? Securing them or insulating them or removing old pipes? Any ideas?

    Thanks so much for your help, Florence
    Doug is correct in pointing out that a total re-pipe with *CPVC is less expensive (material wise) than a re-pipe with PEX, but this is generally only true when the installer has full access to the wall cavities (chases) where the piping will be installed -- Which means walls will have to be opened up.

    The beauty of PEX tubing is that it can be fished through stud and joist bays, much like electrical wires, with a minimal amount of damage to wall surfaces.

    *Disclaimer: I dislike CPVC with a passion and my advice will often reflects that dislike.
    PalmMP3's Avatar
    PalmMP3 Posts: 321, Reputation: 28
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    #13

    Jan 10, 2008, 08:21 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by iamgrowler
    Disclaimer: I dislike CPVC with a passion and my advice will often reflects that dislike.
    Just curious: why? What do you have against CPVC?
    iamgrowler's Avatar
    iamgrowler Posts: 1,421, Reputation: 110
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    #14

    Jan 10, 2008, 08:38 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by PalmMP3
    Just curious: why? What do you have against CPVC?
    I've spent a great deal of time over the years correcting and/or ripping out and replacing faulty installations.

    Catastrophic failure at plate penetrations is the usual suspect (It will basically shear off at the upper or lower plate if it's strapped too tightly), followed by inadequate or too stringent mid-point strapping and failure to install expansion loops to allow for expansion and/or contraction.

    I'll use it for running condensate drains or T&P drains, but there is no way I would install it in a pressure application.
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,378, Reputation: 2280
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    #15

    Jan 10, 2008, 09:09 PM
    A big reason for CPVC failure is the reckless installation by less than qualified people when this stuff first hit the market. Pretty much any fool could install it but 20 years later their installs started coming apart. People strung this stuff like it was a electric extensuion cord using very little support or clamping, I have seen a great many held to a stud with a bent nail, they actually bent the nail over the cpvc by striking it with a hammer.
    doug238's Avatar
    doug238 Posts: 1,560, Reputation: 62
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    #16

    Jan 11, 2008, 05:55 AM
    I have not had the experiences growler has had and have not seen the pipe fail in Florida or Georgia the way he has seen it in his area. I have seen the pex split because it got a nick in it as it was pulled through holes and over sharp places.
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #17

    Jan 11, 2008, 06:24 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by doug238
    on the manufacturer instructions on installing cpvc it tells you to use no primer for glue joints
    That glue he was speaking of was exclusive to CPVC Flowguard Gold.
    It looks like egg yolks before you would make scrambled eggs.
    It is a combination of both cleaner and glue, the consistency is runny.
    However, priming a solvent weld joint is crucial to prepare the two surfaces to be joined in order to allow glue to properly join the two plastics together.
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #18

    Jan 11, 2008, 06:27 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by iamgrowler
    I've spent a great deal of time over the years correcting and/or ripping out and replacing faulty installations.

    Catastrophic failure at plate penetrations is the usual suspect (It will basically shear off at the upper or lower plate if it's strapped too tightly), followed by inadequate or too stringent mid-point strapping and failure to install expansion loops to allow for expansion and/or contraction.

    I'll use it for running condensate drains or T&P drains, but there is no way I would install it in a pressure application.
    Then your displeasure with CPVC isn't with the product itself but with faulty installations. Correct?
    iamgrowler's Avatar
    iamgrowler Posts: 1,421, Reputation: 110
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    #19

    Jan 11, 2008, 07:41 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by speedball1
    Then your displeasure with CPVC isn't with the product itself but with faulty installations. Correct?
    No, it's with the product itself.

    When installed correctly, following all of the manufacturers installation guidelines, the money you saved in material cost is often then spent on the increased labor/installation costs.
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #20

    Jan 11, 2008, 08:18 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by iamgrowler
    No, it's with the product itself.

    When installed correctly, following all of the manufacturers installation guidelines, the money you saved in material cost is often then spent on the increased labor/installation costs.
    Then you recommend copper over PVC or PVCV for water pipes? What about Pex?

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