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    randombill's Avatar
    randombill Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #1

    Mar 9, 2008, 02:51 PM
    Moving water in toilet bowl (and a small leak)
    Hi, OK, this is sort of a weird issue to describe. (if it even is an issue)

    Let me start by describing my toilet. I live in a NYC co-op and this is a commercial style toilet. It has no tank, just feeds directly from the pipe in the wall. The toilet was re-seated twice, once when I renovated the bathroom, and once about 2 months ago when I thought it was leaking from the base, but it wasn't. (I realized I had spilled/splashed water from the sink)

    Ok, so here we go. The water in the bowl moves up and down constantly, not dramatically, but its constantly moving, like it has its own current. If I tear off a piece of toilet paper and drop it in there, the paper goes down and up under the water.. it doesn't suck all the way down into the pipe or anything, but just up and down within the toilet. Any ideas as to what can cause this? Is it my toilet/pipe or an issue with the line of pipes my apartment is on? I am on the top floor of my co-op, (the sixth floor). Could a problem with an apartment below me cause this issue? Could it be related to an issue of a "water hammer"? My line previously had an issue with air in the line a few months ago creating a water hammer, the super knew what apartment it was coming from and fixed it.

    Oh and I should mention that the water always did this since I have been here (less than 1 year). Its just that I have recently been curious about it.

    Also, my toilet is actually now leaking somehow from the bottom of the toilet where the bowl meets the floor. So I'm curious if this water movement could be affecting this in any way.(however my hunch is I doubt it) It only seems to leak when the toilet is flushed, not a continuous leak. This is particuarily curious because the second time the toilet was re-seated we used extra wax on the was seal, so we hoped to not have to re-seat it again. Now the toilet does not seat absolutely perfectly, the old lead waste pipe is cracked/chipped a bit at the top. When I flush, a small amount of water beads out from the base all around the toilet. Because it doesn't seat perfectly if I apply pressure to the bowl by kneeling on the floor and just applying pressure from my chest onto the toilet, I can see the water squish out a bit. This just started yesterday.

    Sorry for the long winded post, and I pre-emptively thank any who take the time to read and respond.
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #2

    Mar 9, 2008, 03:12 PM
    Hey Random... sounds like a venting issue here... does the water bob up and down ALL THE TIME?

    The water movement will not effect the toilet drain or the connection to the flange,

    The lead pipe is the issue in terms of the leak. They sell flange repair kits that may be helpful here... or it may just not be sealed properly... two wax gaskets or not (sorry). I think you need to lift the toilet, clear away the wax real good and look at the lead pipe above floor... lead is usually peened over to make a semi-flange.. may be leaking there and then we will need to solve that issue.

    Answer my questions for now... talk soon... Mark
    randombill's Avatar
    randombill Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Mar 9, 2008, 03:58 PM
    Hey mass, thanks for the reply.

    Yes, the water bobs up and down all the time, as I said, ever since I been here. I was more curious than concerned really. I figured that since it always did it, if it was severely negative, a serious issue would have occurred by now, maybe I'm wrong? Is there negative issues associated with it?

    Interesting about the pipe, this would still cause the water to leak at the base of the toilet? I would have thought should that pipe been the issue, the water would merely leak into the apartment below me (which we don't want either since it is a co-op ! Lol). And as per my understanding of plumbing (somewhat minimal I would say), if the lead pipe is the cause, this would explain why the leak only occurs when flushing correct? As opposed to a constant leak which might be the bowl itself?
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #4

    Mar 9, 2008, 04:04 PM
    If the lead pipe is cracked at top of floor, may show up upstairs... AND WHO IS TO SAY IT IS NOT LEAKING DOWNSTAIRS... it could be, just has not showed up, yet! ;)

    Anyway, yeah.. the bobbing is not big issue, but let me doublecheck with a friend to be sure. Talk soon... mark.
    randombill's Avatar
    randombill Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Mar 9, 2008, 04:43 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by massplumber2008
    If the lead pipe is cracked at top of floor, may show up upstairs....AND WHO IS TO SAY IT IS NOT LEAKING DOWNSTAIRS....it could be, just has not showed up, yet!! ;)

    Anyway, yeah..the bobbing is not big issue, but let me doublecheck with a friend to be sure. Talk soon...mark.

    I don't remember for the life of me exactly how far down the pipe is cracked, but if it does go below the level of the floor, it doesn't go much. Looks like it deffinitely requires pulling up and checking out. I'll probably be doing this on Tuesday since its not super dire, I just have to avoid flushing. Lol. Thanks for the double check mark. :)
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
    Senior Plumbing Expert
     
    #6

    Mar 9, 2008, 05:46 PM
    Let me know if I can help... have a few ideas... also, does the toilet rock at all.. Get back to me.
    randombill's Avatar
    randombill Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Mar 9, 2008, 06:15 PM
    Yes, if you have any ideas/input for repairing the cracked/chipped lead pipe that would be great. I only know really basic stuff. My father knows more. He welds and soders and fits pipes (he's not a plumber, just a handyman). He did try to improve upon the chips by soddering it a little bit to smooth out the edges, but not totally repair it. He had mentioned it when we first renovated the bathroom, I know he's not exactly sure how to go about repairing it properly.

    The toilet doesn't "rock" persay, but its not seated completely flush to the floor. If you push down on it, it will push down very slightly. Like maybe 1/16th of an inch. I'm not even sure if sitting on it causes it to move, I only know that intentionally trying to put pressure on it, it will move that little bit.

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