I have had the usual symptomatic water overflow out of the dishwasher air gap on the top of my sink countertop. After replacing the countertop with granite and relocating the air gap hole, I replaced the hose from the air gap to the disposal and insured there was no blockage in the disposal and new hose. Yet I have so much water pressure coming from the dishwasher that it shoots out of the air gap vent. I confirm the water is draining into the disposal from the air gap vent but it seems there is so much water or the pressure is so great the system can't handle the amount of water being discharged and backs up into the air gap. I've even looped the extra amount of hose from the dishwasher to the air gap above the disposal drain height to see if that would solve this. It did seem to take some of the pressure off of the water coming out of the air gap but it still spews out. After searching and reading all the posts regarding this usually common issue, I'm at a loss. Anyone have any ideas?

speedball1

Growler, Growler, Growler,

The problem with you younger, "by the book" plumbers is that the "book" never tought you to improvise or think outside the box. Everythings black and white to you. "If it ain't code, it ain't right". You appear to worry more about code then you do about results. Did you even take the time to read my last post. Let's get Daves dishwasher workingt for him and quit
hassling about the pros-and cons of air-gaps. He's tried three air-gaps with the same result. I gave him a solution. Do you have anything better???

labman

Pumps have a pressure/volume curve. If you increase the back pressure by using a restriction, the volume delivered will decrease. It is easier to destroy a pump with too low of back pressure than too high. Try the C-clamp. If it works, go to something more permanent. Even a partial kink in the hose might do. Keep it out of sight so nobody fixes it. If I were going to live in the house, I would have a high loop installed long before this. When you sell it, it may be inspected and you may be presented with the bill to fix all the code violations.

I point out mistakes, which upsets some people when a non plumber catches theirs, but don't call people idiots here.

speedball1

I might just have cleared up the mystery of why his air-gap clogs up.
I went over to the appliance page and picked some brains. It seems that mid and upper level dishwashers have grinders that grind the food up so it won't clog a air-gap. The lower end ones use the pump to grind the food particles. if Dave had a faulty grinder or didn't wash the plates good this could be the reason. This is not a solution, ( I gave that in a earlier post) but just one possible explaination. Regards, tom

daveskee

I don't understand how a faulty grinder or pump would result in the increase in water pressure draining from the dishwasher. Speedball1, could you explain that to this novice?

speedball1

Sorry Dave, My bad! In the confusion over which was the best, air-gap or high loop, I lost track of your original complaint and was thinking the air-gap overflowed due to blockage in the dischage. I apologize for my error. However, there have been only two solutions offered. One was to choke down on the volume entering the air-gap and I'll repeat mine. If everything else fails with your air-gap then remove it, place a chrome cock hole cover or a soap dispenser in its place and run a high loop on the discharge hose. Run the loop as high as it will go under the cabinet and secure it with a pipe strap,(see image) and put this all behind you. This is not to say the other "pro air-gap" experts are wrong. This is about getting your problem solved in the fastest, easiest way and I believe a high loop may be the answer.
If restricting the flow to the air-gap doesn't help i would give some serious thought to my solution. Anyway you go I wish you the best of luck. Tom.

El Glom-o

I found this web site while trying to find help with the very same problem described by daveskee. Did he ever get his trouble resolved?

It looks to me like the air gap that came with my dishwasher is just a poor design that doesn't have a chance of properly draining the water at the kind of pressure and volume as delivered by the dishwasher pump. I tried looking at replacements on-line but all of the photos show them with decorative covers in place so I can't see if the gap itself looks any better than the one I have. Also, daveskee mentioned going through several replacements without success, so I'm thinking that these air gaps are all pretty similar and replacing mine probably wouldn't solve anything. But does anyone have a suggestion for a particular model, should I decide to go that way?

I've found the air gap/high loop controversy interesting. I don't know what the Baltimore City code says about them.

Thank you.

Mark Piper

Just a guess but some times small chicken bones or tooth picks can get stuck in the dishwasher discharge hose. They are to long to turn the corner in the air gap but can fall back down the hose and out of sight, then come right back up and plug a new air gap.

If you pop the top off the air gap and remove the top plug. With the dishwasher set on discharge … close the door on the dish washer for about one second...what ever is in the hose will come out the top of the air gap. Put it back together and test it.

Just an old handyman but I have seen it three or four times over the years.

Happy trails
Mark

speedball1

ElGlom-0, I have a solution for you that has worked without complaints or call backs in my area for years. Remove the old air gap and install a chrome cock hole cover in its place. Now run a high loop air gap by replacing the discharge hose and looping it up as high as it will go in the cabinet and securing it with a pipe strap 0or band iron. You may now connect to the disposal and forgrt about any more counter top back ups. good luck, Tom

adrift32

I have read the the lengthy and heated answers and comments to this question.

I have just returned from a client who has a Jen-Air DishWasher that "smells like dirty water".
I am having the exact same problem as Daveskee and El Glam-O.

The installation of an air-gap allows water to erupt from the air-gap during the pump/drain cycle of the DW. And, sorry Speedball1, but draining a sink-full of water from the single-basin sink with disposal (prior to air-gap installation) allows water to return up the DW drain line and back into the disposal. This may well be due to a plumbing vent problem "downstream" from the the disposal, but regardless, it seems physically impossible for this to happen.

I agree with Daveskee that the problem does indeed seem to be that the DW pumps water too fast. ...at least faster than the hose downstream from the air gap can allow to pass.

Please, any suggestions or further insight into how to remedy the situation would be greatly appreciated by myself, Daveskee, El Glam-O, and the hot Russian MILF who needs me to fix her DW.

And please, Daveskee and I have both made certain that the drain lines are clear and un-kinked, the air-gaps are clean and/or new, the disposal KO has been KO'd etc, etc.

To daveskee: As a person who has remodeled and sold and repaired, I'd suggest you swallow the moral dilemma and go with Speedball1's answer: high-loop, hide the loop, and wait for the home inspection team to complain. If they do, offer the buyer the $ for the repair and nothing more. This "interesting puzzler" could cost you a sale.

Thanks for reading. I'll be interested in any further brainstorming.

tsainta

Here's something (yet another thing) I learned by screwing up and messing around until I finally got it right. In the top of an air gap is an insert with two holes. Inside the air gap are two divisions. One division connects to the inflow side of the air gap (from the dishwasher) and the other connects to the outflow side (to the disposal). If the top insert is put in wrong, water will flow from it when the dishwasher empties. For correct operation of the air gap both holes in the insert need to be positioned over the outflow division of the air gap.