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I have had the usual symptomatic water overflow out of the dishwasher air gap on the top of my sink countertop. After replacing the countertop with granite and relocating the air gap hole, I replaced the hose from the air gap to the disposal and insured there was no blockage in the disposal and new hose. Yet I have so much water pressure coming from the dishwasher that it shoots out of the air gap vent. I confirm the water is draining into the disposal from the air gap vent but it seems there is so much water or the pressure is so great the system can't handle the amount of water being discharged and backs up into the air gap. I've even looped the extra amount of hose from the dishwasher to the air gap above the disposal drain height to see if that would solve this. It did seem to take some of the pressure off of the water coming out of the air gap but it still spews out. After searching and reading all the posts regarding this usually common issue, I'm at a loss. Anyone have any ideas?
Would you care to check back on the complaints we have got on air-gaps versus high loops? Gee! That's correct!! We haven't got any high loop complaints have we?
Well, given the nature of the failure of a high loop should it fail, no one is going to notice.
Do you check your dishwasher to see if there is any contaminated water sitting in the bottom of it? Not that you would know it was contaminated, of course.
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You're correct about the disposal pumping gray water back into the dishwasher if some fool were to advise clearing a clogged drain line by filling up the sink with water and turning on the disposal. Let's see how many complainbts we have got over the years on that scenario. Oops! Can''t find any of those either.
And what if there was a partial clog in the discharge line?
Some of the waste water would pump past the blockage, but most of it would gravity drain back into the dishwashers sump.
And also, we're talking about connecting the drain hose to the disposal.
Most Plumbers I know rough in a kitchen drain with a partition cross and pipe the discharge hose into a separate trap -- Without the air gap as a tell-tale, how would you even know a problem exists with a high loop?
The discharged water certainly isn't going to back up into the sink if the discharge hose is plugged or partially plugged.
"Well, given the nature of the failure of a high loop should it fail, no one is going to notice.
Do you check your dishwasher to see if there is any contaminated water sitting in the bottom of it? Not that you would know it was contaminated, of course."
If a higfh loop fails you won't have to check the sump to find out.
Simply open the door and all the water that was used will come gushing out.
However, That's never happened in all the dishwashers my company's installed or has it ever been a complaint here in the [plumbing page.
"And also, we're talking about connecting the drain hose to the disposal."
Most Plumbers I know rough in a kitchen drain with a partition cross and pipe the discharge hose into a separate trap -"
we don't complicate things in my area, We connect to the disposal and if there's no disposal we connect to a branch tailpiece.
-" Without the air gap as a tell-tale, how would you even know a problem exists with a high loop?"
This question has been answered earlier. You'd have a flood the moment you opened the dishwasher door.
Dave, you gotta problem with your air -gap? Run a high loop and forget it.
Regards, Tom
I would normally be out of this by now because we've got some great pros in discussion. Dave did you ever try my suggestion about restricting the discharge? Since you seem to want to keep the air gap (don't do it) you could throttle down the volume of your dishwasher power drain.
First of all thanks for calling me a idiot. Now, just what's the discharge from tubs, showers, lavatories, washers and kiutchen sinks called? Gee! Whadda ya know! It's called "gray water" as per against "fecal matter". I would be most interested in your name for it. In the meantime if you're gonna insult someone and call him a idiot get your definitions correct before you do it or you might end up looking like one yourself.
I have reread all of the post that I have posted on this subject and I can not find where I called any individual, by name or by suggestion, an Idiot. All I was trying to do was make a point about how nasty the water is that goes through a disposal.
This shouldn't be a question about what's better, a air-gap or a high loop, this should be about what works for you. You've fought your air-gap about as far as you can take it. Choking or restricting the discharge by clamping the hose is a last ditch effort and will set up back pressure in the pump. I don't know if this will be harmful to the unit or not since we have never been faced with your problemin in our area but I do know restricting the discharge of anything can't be beneficial.
If everything else fails with your air-gap then remove it, place a chrome cock hole cover or a soap dispenser in its place and run a high loop on the discharge hose. Run the loop as high as it will go under the cabinet and secure it with a pipe strap,(see image) and put this all behind you. This is not to say the other "pro air-gap" experts are wrong. This is about getting your problem solved in the fastest, easiest way and I believe a high loop may be the answer. Good luck, Tom
Hear, hear Speedball. Codes are important, don't get me wrong, but they are not absolute physical laws. At the time my home was built air gaps were not required but they are now. Its just a new law to avoid worst case scenarios not the day to day issue. Where I live drywall was not code until 1975, does that mean it was unsafe?? Some codes are driven by lobby groups and unions and are not necessarily mandated by physical laws. Many DIY repairs are not always code but improvisation is sometimes needed when the original up to code part fails.
Hear, hear Speedball. Codes are important, don't get me wrong, but they are not absolute physical laws.
I'm reminded of the arguments I've had with architects, designers and homeowners over the years:
'But Plumbing Codes are arbitrary and they certainly don't apply to me'.
My usual pat response is, "They most certainly are not arbitrary and they most definitely do apply to you."
Period.
Quite frankly, I'm appalled by yours and Tom's answers to this problem, Dave.
If he lived in the 90% of the country where high loops are accepted, then I wouldn't have word one to say on the subject -- But to advise someone to defy the prevailing code in their community is just wrong.
Period.
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At the time my home was built air gaps were not required but they are now.
I don't know if you're still out in the field or not, but the old policy of 'Grandfathering' in older installations that are no longer up to code is a thing of the past -- The general consensus is that if you open it up (expose it to view), you must bring it up to code.
Period.
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Its just a new law to avoid worst case scenarios not the day to day issue.
It isn't, actually.
If you read the code book Tom is operating from -- A "highloop" is an acceptable alternative (under the IPC and the SPC) to an approved airgap -- Meaning that an airgap is an additional accepted alternative.
Most high end Plumbers in jurisdictions covered by the IPC and the SPC opt for counter mounted airgaps or Johnson Tee's -- In the unwritten rules of Plumbing, 'Cover Thine Own Butt' is in the top 5.
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Many DIY repairs are not always code but improvisation is sometimes needed when the original up to code part fails.
Wrong.
It isn't the code that has failed -- It is something in either the installation or the appliance that has failed.
Tom has stated that there are a number of posts regarding the failure of counter mounted airgaps -- I'm not going to dispute this, because I can visualize installation snafu's where this might occur, but in over twenty years of owning and running a Plumbing company, I have never once had this happen to any of my installations.
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