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Home > Home & Garden > Plumbing   »   Bad smell from shower

 
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Old Oct 30, 2009, 06:58 AM
ericdj
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Bad smell from shower

Hi


Our master bathroom's shower has suddenly began to stink...like sewer gas or rotten eggs. Here are the steps I have taken:

1)Cleaned the drain with a brush and cleaner so the drain and pipe are spotless. There was a TON of black gunk on it...but it had been that way for 2 years and we use the shower about 2-3 times a day and it never smelled.
2)Snaked the drain to about 20feet and nothing was down there.
3)Confirmed that the sink and toilet in the same master bath do NOT smell.
4)The smell only comes from the shower drain when about 5 minutes into a shower until the end of the shower.
5)The smell does not exist hours later after the shower...again, only when showering and only about 5 minutes into the shower does it appear.
6)The drain has water so I don't think the water evaporated or anything like that...we use the shower 2-3 times a day every day.
7)We have a septic tank/leaching field...not a sewer.
8)It is not the water that smells.
9)The shower itself is pretty clean...doubt that it's the floor or walls of the inside of the shower.
10)This smell only appears from this 1 shower...all toilets, sinks, and other showers in house smell just fine (and are used far far less frequently).
11)I have tried filling the shower with about 5 gallons of water, then letting it all go down the drain suddenly in order to push anything out of the way that might be far down the pipe.

The only thing left for me to try (I think) is to pour 1 quart of water into the drain in case somehow the trap evaporated...but wouldn't #11 above have helped that?


If there is something you wish for me to take apart and check, do you have a schematic of a typical shower/shower drain so I know what exact pieces you are talking about? I am not sure if this is a vent issue and wouldn't go up on the roof looking (I am afraid of heights)...but I would think other plumbing items in the house would lead to that vent...so if it was a vent problem, wouldn't the sink and toilet in the master bath also smell?

Since this smell appeared very suddenly (and I've cleaned the drain very well and still the problem persists) I would think this is something other than a biofilm pipe...unless the film is far down the drain/pipe where I cannot reach with a scrubbie and chemicals.

Thanks so much in advance for your help!

-Eric

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Old Oct 30, 2009, 08:39 AM   #2  
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You should not worry about an evaporated trap if the shower is used 2-3 times per day. The only thing I would add to your list of things to try would be to rid the vent stack from the roof. Your traps could be siphoning as they drain due to a clogged vent.
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Old Oct 30, 2009, 09:53 AM   #3  
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Originally Posted by ballengerb1 View Post
You should not worry about an evaporated trap if the shower is used 2-3 times per day. The only thing I would add to your list of things to try would be to rid the vent stack from the roof. Your traps could be siphoning as they drain due to a clogged vent.
Hi...thanks for the reply. Can you please elaborate on ridding the vent stack comment? I will have to send a friend up there.

Should he use a stick or particular device? Push or pull? How long of a stick/device should he shove down the vent? Etc. I'm really a newbie at this and have absolutely no idea what the vents look like or how they work...and how rough/gentle we need to be with them. Do you or anyone here have a diagram/schematic of how most showers/vents/pipes are layed out?

Thanks!

-Eric

p.s. I am trying a few scoops of Oxyclean powder right now...so far I can't tell if it is helping...dumped 1 scoop in, let it sit for 30 mins...then flushed with warm and hot water for about 5 mins...then put in another scoop and also sprinkled some on a scrubby brush and scrubbed the clean drain pipe. I can smell the odor when using the scrubby brush...

Also...is it possible a clogged roof vent would cause this problem? I went to my attic and found the vent that goes to the roof so I know where to look. It seems my master bathroom is vented to that 1 vent while the other bathrooms in the house (on the other side of our house actually) are vented on a 2nd vent.

Maybe some leaves blew into the vent?...and thus is keeping the smelly air from rising out of the vent?...and thus backing it up into our master shower? But that's odd that we don't smell the odor from the toilet or sink...unless we need to use those much more extensively in order to produce the odor. Ideas?

Most websites state putting a garden hose down the vent and turning on the water...but forcefully pushing a birds nest or other junk DOWN a vent doesn't seem like a good idea to me...unless I am wrong. Why in the world would I want to push something further down a pipe...why not snake it? Unless it's impractical.
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Old Oct 30, 2009, 12:33 PM   #4  
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We ran into this situation before. It was bacteria growth inside the drain. It had very distinctive odor to it....

Look inside with flash light and see if you have white, slimy looking substance on walls of the drain inlet and pipe - before pipe reaches water in trap. Come back to let me know what you've found out . Thanks. Milo
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Old Oct 30, 2009, 01:00 PM   #5  
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Do any of your traps "gurgle" when something's draining? A vent draws air in to reduce suction caused be a discharge. A blocked vent could suction the water right out of the shower trap causing a odor. Unless your lavatory vent runs directly up through the roof it's revented back in the attic and must be cut open to snake.
In the mean time this may be of interest.
Most bad odors in bathroom drains come from rotting hair mixed with grease from the soap. Try this. Remove the two screws holding the strainer. (TIP; put the screws in the soap dish before they get lost down the drain.) Shine a light down there and with a bent coathanger fish out any hair that may be hiding down there. Then pour a 1/2 gal. of bleach down into the trap and let it set over night. Next morning flush the mess down with 2 large pans of boiling water, (this is important). The bleach will dissolve the hair and make it slippery and the boiling water will melt the grease and get the mess outta your drain. Smell better now? Cheers TOM
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Old Oct 30, 2009, 03:25 PM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal View Post
We ran into this situation before. It was bacteria growth inside the drain. It had very distinctive odor to it....

Look inside with flash light and see if you have white, slimy looking substance on walls of the drain inlet and pipe - before pipe reaches water in trap. Come back to let me know what you've found out . Thanks. Milo
Hi...the pipe (PVC it seems) is practically spotless...it's an off-white-ish pipe that was originally filled with black gunk that I needed a screwdriver to break off and long pliers to pull the stuff out! 1 chunk was about 9 inches long and 1 inch thick! Some gunk fell into the drain and there was nothing I could do given the pliers and tools I had...but they should definitely be washed out of the trap...several times I stuffed the open drain with a cloth towel, filled the shower up with about 4-5 gallons of water, and yanked the towel which the water rushed down.

Honestly, I don't see any film...nothing above the water...and the water looks pretty clear (hard to tell with the color of the pipe).

In all this talk about the drain, I gave the drain cover a real good scrubbing with oxi-clean and then Tilex...it wasn't filthy but it had a tad of white slime on it.

I probably can't give you a 100% answer if the smell is gone till tomorrow since I've been around this problem all day and my nose is probably somewhat biased right now.

This problem literally appeared all-of-a-sudden. We took a shower Wednesday morning and were like "what the **** is that smell?!" I'm assuming something that comes this quickly (and snaking the drain provided nothing...and the last time I snaked was about 5 months ago) should be a simple problem to deduce...but maybe a bit tough to solve.

My gut tells me the problem is (in no particular order) 1 of the below:

1)Something further down in the drain...because the smell only comes when showering and after a few mins of showering...maybe the rush of the water and soap allows the gas to come up. But, on the other hand, shouldn't the gas have gone up the vent? I don't know...I really don't know how vents/pipes are set up.

2)I'm just missing something with the cleaning...I've chiseled away the gunk and used pliers to remove (not flush down) as much as possible...the pipe above the water and in the water looks extremely clean...the drain cover was cleaned a few mins ago extensively. If the problem still persists, I will clean the entire tile/floor/walls but I just did that about a month ago.

3)The vent on the roof is clogged...the vent is right over our shower...in the attic I can see a pipe leading to the vent in the roof. I have no idea how a vent is connected to a shower drain/pipe...do you have a website that has pix or diagrams?

Thanks again for your (and everyone's) help!

-Eric

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedball1 View Post
Do any of your traps "gurgle" when something's draining? A vent draws air in to reduce suction caused be a discharge. A blocked vent could suction the water right out of the shower trap causing a odor. Unless your lavatory vent runs directly up through the roof it's revented back in the attic and must be cut open to snake.
In the mean time this may be of interest.
Most bad odors in bathroom drains come from rotting hair mixed with grease from the soap. Try this. Remove the two screws holding the strainer. (TIP; put the screws in the soap dish before they get lost down the drain.) Shine a light down there and with a bent coathanger fish out any hair that may be hiding down there. Then pour a 1/2 gal. of bleach down into the trap and let it set over night. Next morning flush the mess down with 2 large pans of boiling water, (this is important). The bleach will dissolve the hair and make it slippery and the boiling water will melt the grease and get the mess outta your drain. Smell better now? Cheers TOM
1)I don't hear any gurgling...on anything in the house. The shower sounds the same now as it has for the past 2+ years we've lived here.

2)I would never pour bleach down a drain that leads to a septic tank...and every other advice I've read states the same thing. Maybe if it was a city sewer, yes, but not my septic tank/system. I have tried a few scoops of Oxi-clean today.

3)I've already snaked the drain numerous times...even going as far as 20 feet...nothing is pulled back except maybe 4 strands of hair...literally.


Overall it's a bit hard for me to state right now if the problem is going away, is 100% gone, or is the same...I notice the smell the most when I am actually taking a shower...not like the past few hours where I have been cleaning and running water and trying different things...I will give an update tomorrow morning after I've taken a break for awhile.

Would this picture be a standard diagram for most bathrooms? Although my shower and sink are on opposite walls, this seems to make sense to me about how a vent works. But, I can't tell you exactly where the vent pipe in my master bath is located compared to this picture...total bummer.

Anyone know of a very long (say 5 feet) wire brush that I could purchase that is flexible and safe for the pipe? The one I got at a local store is only about 11" long (total). If I had a really long scrubby I could douse it with cleaner and scrub further down the pipe...and it would also be thicker than a snake so it might dislodge something the snake isn't grabbing. If you know of such a long item, please give me a weblink and/or proper terminology...I can't find it on plumming sites or Google...

Thanks in advance!

-Eric
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Old Oct 30, 2009, 04:13 PM   #7  
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Quote:
2)I would never pour bleach down a drain that leads to a septic tank...and every other advice I've read states the same thing. Maybe if it was a city sewer, yes, but not my septic tank/system. I have tried a few scoops of Oxi-clean today.
Perhaps this might be a good time for a few septic tanks facts.
Let me give you a few pointers. Since the septic tank is such an essential part of a sewage system, here are some points to remember about the "care and feeding" of that part of the onsite sewage treatment system.
A "starter" is not needed for bacterial action to begin in a septic tank. Many bacteria are present in the materials deposited into the tank and will thrive under the growth conditions present.
If you feel that an additive is needed, be aware that some may do great harm. Additives that advertise to "eliminate" tank cleaning may cause the sludge layer to fluff up and be washed out into the drainfield, plugging soil pores. Some additives, particularly degreasers, may contain carcinogens (cancer-causing) or suspected carcinogens that will flow into the ground water along with the water from the soil treatment unit.
Send all sewage into the septic tank. Don't run laundry wastes directly into the drainfield, since soap or detergent scum will plug the soil pores, causing failure.
Normal amounts of household detergents, bleaches, drain cleaners, and other household chemicals can be used and won't stop the bacterial action in the septic tank. But don't use excessive amounts of any household chemicals. Do not dump cleaning water for latex paint brushes and cans into the house sewer.
Don't deposit coffee grounds, cooking fats, wet-strength towels, disposable diapers, facial tissues, cigarette butts, and other non-decomposable materials into the house sewer. These materials won't decompose and will fill the septic tank and plug the system. To use a 5-gallon toilet flush to get rid of a cigarette butt is also very wasteful of water. Keep an ash tray in the bathroom, if necessary.
Avoid dumping grease down the drain. It may plug sewer pipes or build up in the septic tank and plug the inlet. Keep a separate container for waste grease and throw it out with the garbage.
If you must use a garbage disposal, you will likely need to remove septic tank solids every year or more often. Ground garbage will likely find its way out of the septic tank and plug up the drainfield. It is better to compost, incinerate, or deposit the materials in the garbage that will be hauled away. As one ad says, "You can pay me now, or pay me later."
Clean your septic tank every 1 to 3 years. How often depends on the size of the tank and how many solids go into it. A rule of thumb is once every 3 years for a 1,000 gallon tank serving a 3-bedroom home with 4 occupants (and with no garbage disposal).
Using too much soap or detergent can cause problems with the septic system. It is difficult to estimate how dirty a load of laundry is, and most people use far more cleaning power than is needed. If there are lots of suds in your laundry tub when the washer discharges, cut back on the amount of detergent for the next similar load. It's generally best not to use inexpensive detergents which may contain excessive amounts of filler or carrier. Some of these fillers are montmorillonite clay, which- is used to seal soils! The best solution may be to use a liquid laundry detergent, since they are less likely to have carriers or fillers that may harm the septic system.
Each septic system has a certain capacity. When this capacity is reached or exceeded, there will likely be problems because the system won't take as much sewage as you want to discharge into it. When the onsite sewage treatment system reaches its daily capacity, be conservative with your use of water. Each gallon of water that flows into the drain must go through the septic tank and into the soil absorption unit. Following are some ways to conserve water that should cause little hardship in anyone's standard of living:
Be sure that there are no leaking faucets or other plumbing fixtures. Routinely check the float valve on all toilets to be sure it isn't sticking and the water isn't running continuously. It doesn't take long for the water from a leaking toilet or a faucet to add up. A cup of water leaking out of a toilet every minute doesn't seem like much but that's 90 gallons a day! So be sure that there is no water flowing into the sewer when all water-using appliances are supposed to be off.
The most effective way to reduce the sewage flow from a house is to reduce the toilet wastes, which usually account for about 40 percent of the sewage flow. Many toilets use 5 to 6 gallons per flush. Some of the so-called low water use toilets are advertised to use only 3.5 gallons per flush. Usually the design of the bowl hasn't been changed, however, and often two flushes are needed to remove all solids. That's 7 gallons! Toilets are available which have been redesigned and will do a good job with one gallon or less per flush. Using a 1-gallon toilet rather than a 5 gallon toilet will reduce sewage flows from a home by about a third. This reduction may be more than enough to make the sewage system function again. While prices may vary, 1.6 gallon toilets can usually be purchased in the $200 range, far less than the cost of a new sewer system. Baths and showers can use lots of water. "Setting up camp" in the shower with a shower head flow of 5 gallons per minute will require 100 gallons in 20 minutes. Shower heads that limit the flow to 1.5 or 2 gallons per minute are available and should be used. Filling the tub not quite so full and limiting the length of showers will result in appreciable water savings.


-Is the water from the faucet cold enough to drink? How long do you let it run to cool down? Keep a container of drinking water in the refrigerator. Then it won't be necessary to run water from your faucets in order to get a cool drink.
There may be other ways to conserve water that you can think of in your home. The main idea is to consider water as a valuable resource and not to waste it.
Following a few simple rules like not using too much water and not depositing materials in the septic tank that bacteria can't decompose should help to make a septic system trouble-free for m, too! any years. But don't forget the septic tank does need to be cleaned out when too many solids enter the system.
With a water meter you can determine how much water your automatic washer uses per cycle. Many washers now have settings to reduce the amount of water used for small loads. Front loading washers and suds savers use less water than top loading machines. If your sewage treatment system is reaching its maximum capacity, try to spread the washing out during the week to avoid overloading the sewage system on a single day. Septic tanks need tender, loving care too. Good luck, Tom
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Old Oct 30, 2009, 08:03 PM   #8  
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Perhaps this might be a good time for a few septic tanks facts.
Let me give you a few pointers.
Hi Tom...thanks for the tips. I guess everything in life is in moderation but at first glance, pouring 1/2 a gallon of bleach down the drain seemed a bit much. Maybe not. We never use bleach in our washing machine.

On a related note to all your tips...there are only 2 of us in this large 4 bedroom 3.5 bath house...we use the master bath and a downstairs 1/2 bath...the other bathrooms are rarely touched.

-Eric
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Old Oct 31, 2009, 05:48 AM   #9  
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there are only 2 of us in this large 4 bedroom 3.5 bath house...we use the master bath and a downstairs 1/2 bath...the other bathrooms are rarely touched.
Hey Eric,
I hope you use the bathrooms enough so the traps don't evaporate and lose their seal. This would give you a direct connection to the septic tank allowing sewer gas to enter your home. Regards, tom
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Old Nov 1, 2009, 07:12 AM   #10  
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Hey Eric,
I hope you use the bathrooms enough so the traps don't evaporate and lose their seal. This would give you a direct connection to the septic tank allowing sewer gas to enter your home. Regards, tom
Hi...can you elaborate on loosing the seal? Do seals rot quickly without water? How quick?

I will make a point to use the other bathrooms' sinks and showers and toilets once a week for 30 seconds each unless you have a better recommendation.

Thanks again.

-Eric

p.s. I am trying the bleach now and will let you know in about 8 hours (6pm EST) how it worked.
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