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Home > Home & Garden > Plumbing   »   Bad smell from shower

 
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Old Oct 30, 2009, 06:58 AM
ericdj
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Bad smell from shower

Hi


Our master bathroom's shower has suddenly began to stink...like sewer gas or rotten eggs. Here are the steps I have taken:

1)Cleaned the drain with a brush and cleaner so the drain and pipe are spotless. There was a TON of black gunk on it...but it had been that way for 2 years and we use the shower about 2-3 times a day and it never smelled.
2)Snaked the drain to about 20feet and nothing was down there.
3)Confirmed that the sink and toilet in the same master bath do NOT smell.
4)The smell only comes from the shower drain when about 5 minutes into a shower until the end of the shower.
5)The smell does not exist hours later after the shower...again, only when showering and only about 5 minutes into the shower does it appear.
6)The drain has water so I don't think the water evaporated or anything like that...we use the shower 2-3 times a day every day.
7)We have a septic tank/leaching field...not a sewer.
8)It is not the water that smells.
9)The shower itself is pretty clean...doubt that it's the floor or walls of the inside of the shower.
10)This smell only appears from this 1 shower...all toilets, sinks, and other showers in house smell just fine (and are used far far less frequently).
11)I have tried filling the shower with about 5 gallons of water, then letting it all go down the drain suddenly in order to push anything out of the way that might be far down the pipe.

The only thing left for me to try (I think) is to pour 1 quart of water into the drain in case somehow the trap evaporated...but wouldn't #11 above have helped that?


If there is something you wish for me to take apart and check, do you have a schematic of a typical shower/shower drain so I know what exact pieces you are talking about? I am not sure if this is a vent issue and wouldn't go up on the roof looking (I am afraid of heights)...but I would think other plumbing items in the house would lead to that vent...so if it was a vent problem, wouldn't the sink and toilet in the master bath also smell?

Since this smell appeared very suddenly (and I've cleaned the drain very well and still the problem persists) I would think this is something other than a biofilm pipe...unless the film is far down the drain/pipe where I cannot reach with a scrubbie and chemicals.

Thanks so much in advance for your help!

-Eric

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Old Nov 1, 2009, 08:17 AM   #11  
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can you elaborate on loosing the seal? Do seals rot quickly without water? How quick?
I will make a point to use the other bathrooms' sinks and showers and toilets once a week for 30 seconds each unless you have a better recommendation.
Trap seals don't "rot", they evaporate . How long it takes will depend on humidity and Your AC.
Just running water in your traps once a week should keep them filled. Good luck, Tom
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Old Nov 1, 2009, 05:01 PM   #12  
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Originally Posted by speedball1 View Post
Most bad odors in bathroom drains come from rotting hair mixed with grease from the soap. Try this. Remove the two screws holding the strainer. (TIP; put the screws in the soap dish before they get lost down the drain.) Shine a light down there and with a bent coathanger fish out any hair that may be hiding down there. Then pour a 1/2 gal. of bleach down into the trap and let it set over night. Next morning flush the mess down with 2 large pans of boiling water, (this is important). The bleach will dissolve the hair and make it slippery and the boiling water will melt the grease and get the mess outta your drain. Smell better now? Cheers TOM
Hi Tom...I poured 1/2 a gallon of bleach into the drain (shower had not been used for hours or even the previous night...I forget)...put a towel over the drain and let it sit for about 7 hours...then poured near-boiling water (about 2 gallons) down the drain.

Now to again be clear, there has been NO SMELL all day because nobody took a shower. After pouring the hot water, still no bad smell. I then ran the shower (not me in it) for about 6 minutes at warm temp and adjusting the power of the shower head as if someone were in it...no smell (and this was a similar reaction 2 days ago when I ran the shower without being in it--that there was no stink when I just ran the shower).

To be thorough, I took the hand-wand (which we rarely use) on the shower and sprayed the walls and glass just in case the stink is somehow attached to the walls...and thus only gets stinky when someone is in the shower and the water is bouncing off our body onto the wall...so after spraying for about 2 mins, no smell. And I looked at all the walls and corners pretty carefully and don't see anything.

The real test will be tomorrow morning (about 14 hours after pouring the hot water) and physically being in the shower using shampoo and bar soap. If the problem exists, it should happen within 4-5 minutes. Again, to be clear, this is a gaseous smell...not an icky smell. This smell is like opening the lid of a septic tank...nothing like the smell of stuff I've ever snaked out of a drain in my life.

So this is pretty bizarre.

1)If the smell comes back tomorrow morning when we shower, I will be completely stumped....because why would it only stink when a human is actually in the shower naked and showering? We both use 2 different shampoos so it's not that. We do not stand on the drain but I'm sure the physics of showering is different than just running the showerhead.

2)If the smell goes away, I will state that there was something nasty in the trap (or a bit further down) that I couldn't get/see/snake.


I'm hoping #2 occurs tomorrow morning.

Thanks all!

-Eric
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Old Nov 2, 2009, 04:00 AM   #13  
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I go on the roof once a year and run a water hose down the vent stacks. Run the hose down as far as it will go and turn the water on full blast for about 3-5 minutes. Learned to do this when my toilet was draining into my tub!
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Old Nov 2, 2009, 06:31 AM   #14  
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Hey Eric,
Please keep us informed if the smell returns. Good luck and happy showing. Tom
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Old Nov 2, 2009, 08:05 AM   #15  
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Hi all...ok, so my wife took a shower this morning and this is how it went:

-ran shower for about 2 minutes to get it hot
-she got in and started showering
-7 mins later the smell started to come...however, it wasn't as much/strong/forceful as the past few days

When she got out, I cleaned the entire shower with Tilex and hot water just to be sure there was nothing on the walls. I also pulled out all the soaps/shampoos in case there was just something in them that was reacting (but they did not smell).

So...about an hour later I took a shower:

-ran shower for a min or so (I like them cooler)
-about 7 mins later the smell started to come but again, it was not as powerful as the past week.


So the problem still technically exists, but I'm not sure if it is the vent or if it is something in the drain/pipe/trap.

I am going to try another 1/2 gallon of bleach and let it sit for 12+ hours this time instead of the 7+ yesterday. If it still smells tomorrow, then I will have to find someone to go up and check the vent.

-Eric

p.s. why don't they make vents that are open-able from within the attic?...such as having a giant screw that you can unscrew so you can shove a coat hanger up or down. I just don't see the logic in forcing a human to go up on a 30' roof hanging on for dear life to simply shove a hose down it when they could just go to the attic and somehow gain access to the vent pipe say 3 feet below the top of the vent. Heck, forget the screw and just make it so the top 5 feet of the vent pipe screws onto the remaining pipe in the attic.

Alas, the 2nd cleaning of bleach (after 16+ hours of sitting overnight) has not helped. The stink is still here and comes about 7 minutes into a shower. It may not be as overwhelming as a few days ago before I started troubleshooting, but I don't think continuing to pour bleach down the drain is the answer. I may try snaking it one more time but as I've stated earlier, I've snaked it down to 20 feet and nothing was attached to the snake when I pulled it back.

Unless people state otherwise, I think it's time to have someone go up and check the vent. Again, I don't understand why vents are not designed to be accessible in some shape or form in the attic so they can be snaked.
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Old Nov 3, 2009, 05:40 AM   #16  
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Quote:
I think it's time to have someone go up and check the vent. Again, I don't understand why vents are not designed to be accessible in some shape or form in the attic so they can be snaked.
At the same time have him snake the drain again. I* keep wondering if there isn't something down there sending a bubble of sewer gas back every time you shower.
When the contract calls for cleanouts we do install them on stacks. If you do find out there's a clog in a vent it's a good idea to screen them. Let me know what you find. Good luck. Tom
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Old Nov 3, 2009, 06:48 AM   #17  
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Originally Posted by speedball1 View Post
At the same time have him snake the drain again. I* keep wondering if there isn't something down there sending a bubble of sewer gas back every time you shower.
Hi Tom,

Can you elaborate on the snake-the-drain comment? I can snake the drain (that was the first thing I tried and was thinking of doing it again today) to about 20feet and really triple check to make sure nothing is down the pipe. I would imagine it would need to be close by...because if something was lodged 20 feet down, ultimately the gas would go up the vent rather than travel 20 feet up my pipe into the shower. But, I don't have a blueprint of how all the pipes are designed.

I live in CT...I hear it's not wise to install a screen on top of a vent because it can create an ice damn...which would back up the gas.

Can you comment on if I've used too much bleach to harm my septic tank? I would guess I've used about 1+ gallons over the past 2 days...and of course lots of boiling hot water and shower water. Our house is about 4000 sq feet if I remember correctly and has 3.5 baths (but we really only use the master bath).

I was also thinking of filling the shower with water and taking a plunger and seeing if I could force the water through the pipes faster/harder...possibly dislodging anything that is stuck that I (and the snake) does not know about. I'm assuming this is safe as people do it all the time for clogged toilets.

Thanks again for your help.

-Eric
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Old Nov 3, 2009, 07:12 AM   #18  
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Opps! Forgot about snow and Ice so screening the vents isn't too swift. I haven't seen "snow and ice" for over 55 years so I tend to forget.
Quote:
Can you comment on if I've used too much bleach to harm my septic tank?
A few gallons of bleach isn't gonna have much effect in a 1000 gallon septic tank.
This may help.
Shower Drain Odor
By Tim Carter
©1993-2009 Tim Carter
Summary: A shower drain odor can be very unpleasant. The source of the drain odor is often above the water level of the trap. Look at the sides of the drain pipe for biofilm.

Related Articles: Sewer Gas Smell, Foul Odor, Bathroom Sewer Odors, Sewer Gas & Sump Pump, Clog Free Vent Pipes
DEAR TIM: We have a horrible odor coming from the shower drain in our acrylic shower. Five different plumbers have not been able to solve the problem. The first and fourth plumbers said nothing could be done, the second and third plumbers thought the problem was caused by a rocking toilet so they replaced the toilet's wax ring. The fifth plumber said he thought the plumbing drain lines were installed improperly and that the odor was caused each time the toilet flushed. The problem is, the odor just started and all was fine several months ago. I have poured every imaginable cleaning solution into the shower drain and the odor persists. What could be the problem? Shari W., Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
DEAR SHARI: You might be eligible for a place in the record books for having called in that many plumbers for one problem. It is amazing that you have not made any progress on solving the problem. That tells me the source of the odor might not be plumbing related. But to determine this, I am afraid you might have to perform a little exploratory surgery on a wall that is adjacent to the shower.
Odors coming from drains are a common problem in many homes. Some people only have the problem when they run water in a sink or a bathtub. The source of the odor in almost all of these instances is a buildup of biofilm on the sides of the pipes that connect the sink or fixture to the actual P-shaped trap under the fixture. This vertical tailpiece pipe can accumulate a seething bacteria-filled organic layer of slime over time. When water rushes past the slime, it can dislodge some of the molecules into the air and they waft up out of the sink and into your nose.
Biofilm on the drainpipe leaving a shower or any fixture can be a source of odors. Look at the horrible black goo inside the drain! PHOTO BY: Tim Carter To eliminate biofilm as the source of the odor, take the chrome or brass strainer cover off the shower drain so you can see into the drain pipe
. Use soap and water and a larger-diameter bottle brush to thoroughly clean the underside of the strainer, the bowl-shaped drain assembly under the strainer as well as the sides of the vertical drain pipe that extends downward into the p-trap. Rinse thoroughly with clean water until the entire drain is perfectly clean. If the odor still persists, it is time to move on.
Check for mold in the shower and areas near the shower. Active mold growth produces odor. That musty odor you smell when around mold is actually a puff of gas that ejects the mold spore from the mold organism. Imagine if hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of small mold spores are being ejected each day in your shower. This could easily produce enough gas for you to smell. Remember, this mold could be behind the shower tile or walls and hard to discover. A recent leak that is still invisible could be the source of water that is fueling the mold growth.
A dead animal that somehow found its way into the wall space next to the shower or under the shower assembly could be the source of the odor. This is a remote possibility and the stench of a decaying animal is very distinctive and quite unlike the odor produced by sewer gas or biofilm from a drain assembly.
If this shower shares a common wall with a closet or some other wall surface that can be sacrificed, it is time to cut into the wall(s) to see behind and under the acrylic shower assembly. The first holes can be down low towards the floor so that you can see under the shower pan. Purchase an inexpensive makeup compact mirror and attach it to a stick so you can see around any corners or obstructions under the shower pan. Use a flashlight with the mirror to look up the wall cavities as much as possible to see signs of mold growth.
Odors from drains are voices telling you something is wrong. Think of them as low-powered smoke detectors. This is especially true if the source of the odor is some form of mold. It is not uncommon for a water leak to remain invisible for weeks or months and cause mold to bloom in a hidden location.
Add to this the power of the average human's sense of smell. You would be shocked at how few odor molecules it takes to trigger a response. Natural gas is a great example of this. In its pure state, natural gas is odorless. Gas companies add mercaptan chemicals to the gas so we can smell it if there is a dangerous gas leak. Believe it or not, you can easily smell mercaptans at a concentration level of one-half one part mercaptan to 1,000,000 parts of air!
Investigate the source of all odors. Enlist the help of friends if possible, especially those who might have a better sense of smell. Small holes drilled into walls can be very helpful to help track down the source of an odor. Insert a small clear plastic tube into the hole and determine if the odor is stronger or weaker in that particular location.
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Old Nov 3, 2009, 07:39 AM   #19  
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Hi Tom,

Can you recommend a few things for me (assuming there is something in the drain/pipe and not the vent):

1)Any particular brand of chemical to try to kill whatever is in the pipe rather than bleach? Maybe some other chemical is more effective and/or more safe for my septic system.

2)A brush that is longer than 11" so I can really shove it down the pipe a bit. I've looked in Home Depot and all they sell are very thin pipe cleaners...I'm looking for something that has a)a very bendable but not breakable long handle...such as metal that is in pipe cleaners and b)has a thick brush as the end...not some tiny little 1/2 inch diameter brush/bristle.


If you have weblinks for the above 2, that would be terrific. I will write back in about an hour after I snake the drain again and let you know if anything comes up.

-Eric

I snaked the drain...used almost all of the 25 foot snake...nothing...absolutely nothing came up...there was a tad of brown water after pulling it all back in but that is normal. Furthermore, I am 99% sure that my shower drain, after a few feet of the trap, goes straight down to the basement...so the piping isn't all across the floor...which I would therefore assume that it would be difficult for stuff to build up on a vertical pipe.

I put the drain cover and the 2 screws in a bowl of bleach for about 8 hours today...it took a bit of the finish off but maybe it cleaned anything else out too.

So tomorrow here is my plan:

1)shower with the drain cover on...if smell persists, it ain't the drain cover. If smell is gone, I will try a few more days/showers and let you know, too.


If smell is still around, I am beginning to wonder if it is truly a vent issue: I went up to the attic and carefully looked at all the piping that is for ventilation. See if you can follow me here:

-the vent leading to the roof is very close to the corner of the house which is the opposite side of the house as the shower.
-the vent leading to the roof is vertically 6 feet tall or higher from the attic floor
-the vent leading to the roof is connected to 2 pipes which make an upside down T...one kinda snakes overhead the kitchen sink and the other side of the T goes about 20 feet horizontally to the shower...along the way attaching to (in this order left to right) the toilet, the hot tub (which we rarely use), then lastly the shower)

So my thinking is...why would only the shower stink? If gas is truly being blocked from leaving the outside vent, it would have to back up a LONG way (6 feet + 20 feet = 26 feet) for it to start to enter the shower. Or, the vent would have to be clogged right above the shower. I dunno...this is driving me nuts. I ran the hot tub (just the water) for about 4-5 minutes today at various pressures and temps and I didn't smell anything.

I think I will have to wait till tomorrow morning and see what else I can report. I will take a photo of my vent piping in the attic and link to it soon for ya.

-Eric
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Old Nov 4, 2009, 06:14 AM   #20  
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No luck...the smell is still here. I'll have the vent cleaned and let you know what happens.
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