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    Adding branch drain lines to soil stack

    Asked Jan 23, 2011, 10:50 AM 9 Answers
    This will be my first efforts at plumbing. I would really appreciate your thoughts and advice on the following project that I am hoping you see as "fit."

    Goals: (1) New shower where sink was, (2) sink moved to adjacent wall (pipes will need to go around a corner.)

    Problems: (1) Cement Floor that I don't want to cut into for shower drain (I'm female, and it seems a bridge too far for me) and (2) adding branches to present, vertical 3" soil stack.

    What I plan: Build up a 10" subfloor for shower pan, to accommodate P trap, and attach to soil stack as low as possible. (2) Bring branch from new sink into the same soil stack. I'm adding a picture of my soil stack.

    Big question (of the moment)... how do I add branches to the soil stack? It seems that if I cut off a section of the original and add branches made of the same hard, black plastic pipe, that I will never be able to make those new vertical branch pieces a tight fit... or will I be able to pry the soil stack apart enough to accommodate slipping in the new fittings? I saw some soft, flexible fittings in the hardware store... would they hold up, and is that their purpose? FYI: The soil stack is also attached (I think) to the bathroom upstairs.

    Does any of this make sense? I love to roll up my sleeves (I like challenges, and it's also cost effective), but I don't want to create huge problems because of my ignorance. Thanks for any help and advice. Caryl

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    ma0641's Avatar
    ma0641 Posts: 9,359, Reputation: 629
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    #2

    Jan 23, 2011, 05:00 PM
    A simpler solution may be to find someone who can cut the floor and then help you. Climbing up 10" to take a shower is not a practical solution. "Prying" the pipe up could have major consequences as you may collapse the entire system. You need to support the pipe and then cut a section out. Don't make this a regretful... bridge too far.
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    cbrew's Avatar
    cbrew Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Jan 23, 2011, 05:53 PM
    Haha! Bridge too far! I agree with you... building that high platform is kind of goofy. I made a mock-up today, and it looked pretty silly. Is it hard to chip out cement? I have used a jackhammer before... is that what should be used? This is a really small bathroom, and cement cutters are pretty big aren't they? Looking at my picture, do you think there is danger of damaging the sewer line under the cement? Does one fill the hole back in with cement when finished? So many questions. I so appreciate your reply. Thanks for nixing that idea and telling me about the danger of collapsing the stack. To secure the stack, does one band it to a 2x4? I hope you can write back and answer my new questions. In the meantime... I will ponder. I've always thought... if there's a will, there's a way...
    Again, thanks.
    Caryl
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    ma0641's Avatar
    ma0641 Posts: 9,359, Reputation: 629
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    #4

    Jan 23, 2011, 07:28 PM
    cbrew: It's 10:30 here in Atlanta and I will get back to you tomorrow regarding your questions. Don't dream about ABS plumbing pipes!
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    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 11,882, Reputation: 1116
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    #5

    Jan 24, 2011, 05:54 AM



    Hi all...

    Cbrew, if you really want to do this and do it right then I think that is great, but I got to tell you I wouldn't recommend that you do the chipping/digging of any concrete as I am confident that you have a local temporary employment agency near you that will provide you with a laborer for say $12.00-$20.00 an hour and they even come fully insured, too!

    Now, I'm not suggesting a woman can't do the work, but I am suggesting that it isn't necessary to kill yourself here.

    With that being said, there certainly is a chance of damaging the pipe underground but if you use common sense and stay away from the top of the pipe you should be fine. You or the temp. help should remove all debris and dig down to 1-2" BELOW the existing pipe to facilitate cutting into the pipe when needed. Here, you would use shielded clamps to connect into the drain line...see images. The neoprene sleevs "flip" back on themselves which allow you to slip a new fitting with short pipe stubs in each end into the main pipe. You would backfill to cover the pipe using sand or pea size stone and then mix concrete to patch the hole.

    Once you get ready to chip into the floor pop back and we can discuss proper waste piping and VENTING of the new shower, OK?

    Glad to help...

    Mark

    PS: How far will you be relocating the sink? Let me know as the venting requirement for the new sink location will have changed and will probably need to be relocated.
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    cbrew's Avatar
    cbrew Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Jan 24, 2011, 08:04 PM
    Okay! This is all starting to make sense to me (after looking up shielded neoprene sleeves). I've taken your advice and called a handyman for this Saturday to do the chipping. I'll probably use him to help with the soil stack cutting and fitting too (Haha... probably better for my back, anyway). Just to make sure that I understand this, I want to say it as I understand it, and please correct me if I am off base...

    1) I should provide myself a few inches clearance (soil/debris removal) from below where I want to cut (we're still talking the vertical soil stack?).
    2) To add a new branch to the vertical stack, I cut out a section, put in hard black plastic fittings, but rather than using the ABS cement, I use the shielded neoprene sleeves so that I don't need to pry the pipes apart to create the male/female joint.

    Please tell me what you think of this... I figure, since I'm going through the cement, rather than having a shower pan I will create something similar to a "wet room" with shower drain in the (to be) tiled floor. I understand that slope should be 1/4 inch per foot.
    **Do you have suggestions as to whether the drain would be better in middle of shower, or close to the wall corner?
    **Do you think a 4' slope from drain-hole is far enough before I level off for the rest of the room? A 32x32" sliding curtain wall could be used to prevent some spillage.

    As far as the sink... it will be ~ 8' from the soil stack but needs to bend around one corner.

    Sorry to ask so many questions. I can't believe how excellent the responses have been, and how your input is improving upon the original plan. I sure hope that I hear from you wonderful folks again. Please don't give up on me.
    Thanks so much,
    Caryl
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    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 11,882, Reputation: 1116
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    #7

    Jan 25, 2011, 04:54 AM



    HI Caryl...

    1) Nope, I was referring to the horizontal piping in that you will be cutting a new wye fitting (with 2" branch) into the drain pipe for the shower, right? Here, you would get the wye fitting and prime/cement say 4" pieces of pipe into each end of the wye fitting and THEN you would install the shielded neoprene sleeves and flip them back onto themselves and slip the fitting with sleeves into place in the pipe... then install the clamps and tighten all up. It is this flipping of the sleeves and the working of the clamps that requires the extra couple inches under the pipe in the ground. You will also need to install a new vent pipe for the shower drain about 2 feet from the new shower PTRAP and connect that back onto the old sink vent.

    2) Same as above. Cut pieces and cement into a wye fitting and then slip into the stack and tighten the clamps. Be SURE to support the weight of the stack using 2"x4"s so the ABS plastic stack doesn't crack somewhere upstairs. The sink will also need a vent and the shower and sink vent should connect together or connect to other vents.

    Finally, if you plan to have a wet room I would recommend the drain be centrally located, I would recommend that you install a VINYL SHOWER MEMBRANE LAYER to about 8 inches off the floor to keep water from escaping the shower area...

    The floor should be prepitched to the drain in the shower area prior to installing the membrane, tar paper should be put down to protect the membrane, membrane should be installed (as above) and then the floor should be poured to 1/4" per foot of pitch.

    That is only a glance over the right way to do a shower pan... actually quite a bit more involved... Understanding you want a wet room, I would probably recommend that you install a prefabricated shower pan... cheaper and easier job!

    Finally, before any handy man tells you he can do the job I just told you was so involved, see what they plan to do and write it down and let us know as many people, especially handymen and plumbers do these wet areas WRONG!

    An exhaust fan is an absolute MUST for this bathroom!

    Keep us posted, OK?

    Mark
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    cbrew's Avatar
    cbrew Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Jan 25, 2011, 07:23 AM
    Comment on massplumber2008's post
    Quote Originally Posted by massplumber2008 View Post
    HI Caryl...

    1) Nope, I was referring to the horizontal piping in that you will be cutting a new wye fitting (with 2" branch) into the drain pipe for the shower, right? Here, you would get the wye fitting and prime/cement say 4" pieces of pipe into each end of the wye fitting and THEN you would install the shielded neoprene sleeves and flip them back onto themselves and slip the fitting with sleeves into place in the pipe... then install the clamps and tighten all up. It is this flipping of the sleeves and the working of the clamps that requires the extra couple inches under the pipe in the ground. You will also need to install a new vent pipe for the shower drain about 2 feet from the new shower PTRAP and connect that back onto the old sink vent.

    2) Same as above. Cut pieces and cement into a wye fitting and then slip into the stack and tighten the clamps. Be SURE to support the weight of the stack using 2"x4"s so the ABS plastic stack doesn't crack somewhere upstairs. The sink will also need a vent and the shower and sink vent should connect together or connect to other vents.

    Finally, if you plan to have a wet room I would recommend the drain be centrally located, I would recommend that you install a VINYL SHOWER MEMBRANE LAYER to about 8 inches off the floor to keep water from escaping the shower area... ;)

    The floor should be prepitched to the drain in the shower area prior to installing the membrane, tar paper should be put down to protect the membrane, membrane should be installed (as above) and then the floor should be poured to 1/4" per foot of pitch.

    That is only a glance over the right way to do a shower pan... actually quite a bit more involved... ;) Understanding you want a wet room, I would probably recommend that you install a prefabricated shower pan... cheaper and easier job!

    Finally, before any handy man tells you he can do the job I just told you was so involved, see what they plan to do and write it down and let us know as many people, especially handymen and plumbers do these wet areas WRONG!

    An exhaust fan is an absolute MUST for this bathroom!

    Keep us posted, OK?

    Mark
    My heart is beating pretty fast (this is complicated) but with enough thought and time, I know I can do this... correctly. Thanks for your excellent advice and guidance. I will try to post a picture when it's all finished a few weeks from now.
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    pachai's Avatar
    pachai Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
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    #9

    Jun 2, 2012, 09:50 PM
    So, Did this project work out?
    I would love to know how hard it
    Ended up being. I have a basement
    "bathroom" with no sink, but the soil stack
    Is 3' away (in the same room).

    Unfortunately, the Wye needs to go
    In the bottom section that is still cast iron.
    Helpful
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 28,613, Reputation: 1911
    Senior Plumbing Expert
     
    #10

    Jun 3, 2012, 07:07 AM


    Quote Originally Posted by pachai View Post
    So, Did this project work out?
    I would love to know how hard it
    ended up being. I have a basement
    "bathroom" with no sink, but the soil stack
    is 3' away (in the same room).

    Unfortunately, the Wye needs to go
    in the bottom section that is still cast iron.
    Every project's different. Do you need instructions on how to cut a Sanitary Tee into your stack? You are aware that the sink will have to be vented aren't you? This can be done with a AAV if code allows. What's your pleasure? Tom
    Helpful

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