[brad21]

Dear people, I have got a serious problem I sometimes really wonder my my father's behaviour is abusive. Although there is no form of physical abuse, he does get mad and has tempertantrums on a regular basis, like daily or weekly.
Shouting, Yelling, Criticizing, Interfering with everything we doe. Ever since I was a small child he was constantly blaming us for his own misery, and he said things like I'm fed up with you I'm going to pack my bags and leave.
I can easily go to thirdworld country with my money and live like a king, and have a beautifull wife. I don't feel apprecatiated, ik work my *** of to take care of you, you don't deserve my goodness and love. Also he is constantly complaining about other people, I mean constantly, every time the same story, I think I've really heard it for literally 1000 times now. And when I tell him yeah you already told me, he gets mad andt ells me it's rude.
Also he is very controlling, even though I am twenty two ad my sister is twenty, with me it's less, but still he acts very controlling and overprotective towards my sister. Always calling, sometimes yelling through the phone to immediately come home or asking where she is.
Also he is very lonely and has no real friends. His family is al he has left in this world, and the only way he feels useful is by taking care and protecting us. My mother used to be very dependent, seeing my dad as a fatherfigure, when she got depressed and sought psychological help he disapproved it al the time. He was very offensive towards psychologists, didn't want to have anything to do with them.When my mother got mentally stronger and started living her own life he started constantly to get mad, demanding that she would spend more time with the family. Every time when she siad she was gone for the weekend to some alternative course, he always got angry at her.
Accsuing her of abandoning him, not caring for him, not appreciating him.
Every time when my mother started to explain him, that also he had to change, not to be so negative al the time, and stop criticizing others and start looking at himself, he always got very angry, defensive, and argumentative. Always rationalizing everything away and blaming my mother.
Nothing was right, what she did, every time when she did something he always responden negatively and unthankfull.
He always said he was sick of her, or putting her down by saying she was fat. ALways saying he enough of her and wanted to divorce, and later he said he loved her again. When after months of this behaviour my mother told
Him she wanted a divorce, he got extremely angry, yelling at her all night, rationalizing blaming, giving her all the fault. He also sees his behaviour as perfectly normal, and believes he is right and we are wrong.
My father comes from the Middle East by the way, and I do not know whether that plays a role in this whole situation. My mother is American.
He also failed his own studies, and was always pressuring me from childhood to become an important person, to be the best in school, to go to college.
Now I see myself going down the same track, I failed 2 studies in college, and flunked 3 classes in high school. Although I am intelligent enough to fulfill a academic study, I am somehow extremely demotivated, I simply have a total lack of motivation and discipline, also 2 characteristics of my father.
I simply do not know, what to do. Is my father an abusive person, or are most fathers, especially middle eastern fathers, this way ?
Also I feel that the only way I can succeed in life is by, going my own way, and have absolutely no interference or advise from both of my parents. I hate it being controlled all the time, even when I left home for college, they still had to interfer, like calling on a regular basis, start preaching me every weekend I was home. I hate it to feel responsible for my father. Like if I fail I will embarrass him, and displease him. It is so important for him that me and sister really succeed, he dissaproves of choices we make on our own.
Like for example my sister wanted to go to nursing school, which is one level below medschool, and my dad insisted my sister would go to medschool abraod, if here she would not qualify, and even asked me to talk this idea out of her head. With me he is always stressing that he wants me to go into politics, and to become a diplomat. He desperatly wanted me to join an egalitarian fraternity, and even insisted on cleaning toilets to pay it for me.
Always projecting his own unfulfilled ambitions on me. Every time my mother tries to tell him we have our own life, and our own choices, and we have to make our own mistakes, he simply gets angry, and tells her she does not understand. Letting my children go their own way, and seeing them go down the tubes!! Every time my mom tells him he is too overprotective, demanding, strict and interfering, he simply starts to get md and rationalizes everythign away. Like for example my sister is 19 and wants to go on vacation on her own to spring break in mexico, and my father says no, that's not a place for a descent girl like you, by the way girls get drunk and get raped there I can't leave my daughter there. I don't want you to return home with aids, you know really those kind of things. He says these things all the time. I am really ****in fed up with it. When I was in college he even came all the way across the state like 3 hours, because I didn't pick up my cell phone.
Really this man really made my life and my childhood and teenage years a living hell. The problem is also that he is constantly in denial, and really believes he gives us all the freedom in the world, and is not a strict father.
I really regret the fact I didn't have the guts to rebel against my father when I was like 15 or 16, always being so obedient, afraid to displease.
Even though I am 22 years and lived on my own for 2 years, I still have like allot of resentment, fear and anger of my childhood. I moved to the other side of the state, but the fear of displeasing him, the feeling of being controlled, the anger towards him still haunted me. It just didn't go away.
I know it's a long story, but I really need to get this off my chest.
Is there anyone who can help me, or give me advise, or at least refelct on my story and tell me what you think of it.

Brad

[Quixotic2pw]

Brad,
Family dynamics are a very complicated thing. You don't mention any troubles with alcohol or drugs, so I will assume this is not an issue.

I have a 22 year old who could have posted something similar and it wouldn't surprise me. We see the world through our own eyes and it takes many years to really "walk in the shoes" of another. As parents, we want to spare our children some of the hard life lessons we learned and yes, we have dreams and visions for you. Some parents have gone to great lengths to learn proper, nurturing word choices... such as "help me to understand your thoughts" rather than "What the h*** were you thinking????" With your parents desire to see you educated and the underlying message that it seems you are well cared for, I cannot help but think your father means well and just doesn't know the best ways to reach you on an emotional level.

There are some very useful audio/video tape programs that could help you to understand how to communicate with your father without starting a verbal battle. Gary Smalley's Hidden Keys to Loving Relationships offer a video program that is humorous and enlightening. Phil McGraw's Life Strategies gives clues on how to manage yourself (See the serenity prayer and know that the only one you can change is the man in the mirror). Stephen Covey's 7 Habits of Highly Successful Families is also a good source and is a wonderful guide for working together.

AA and Alanon have an excellent communication model that is awkward to use at first, but does take "attack" out of speaking for yourself by using "I" statements (as opposed to "you" statements.) Also, along those lines, you could look at John Gray's guidelines for writing Love Letters. These are not romance letters, but rather a way to put down your feelings in an unthreatening way and without the verbal/physical emotion you might feel while delivering these messages face to face. Your local library should provide access to all these resources.

Good luck to you, Brad!

[Krs]

I hope you don't take offence to this but what religion does your father follow?

I think you are old enough ( and so is your sister ) to make rational decissions for yourself. Yes your father can disapprove but the choice is yours at the end of the day. Your father is acting selfishly big-time, his love for you is a selfish love, and I can't stand that!

I have seen this in my family, where my fathers mum was abit the same, very dominating and if things and choices didn't go her way.. well... they ALWAYS went her way...

[brad21]

My father is a free mason, and my mother a new age freak.
My father really hates semitical religions like islam, christianity and judaism.
He always criticzies narrow-mindedness of others, but he himself is in some ways also very narrow minded himself. The problem is that he sees himself as perfectly tolerant, liberal minded person, but in fact he is not. He just doenst realize this.
I really want to drive a motorcycle, and sniff cocaine, only to piss him off.

[Krs]

No offence Brad but your father to me seems sounds extremely narrow minded, to the extent that nothing goes, solely what he says, which to me you can't get more narrow minded than that!

Its either his way or the high way...

Driving a motorcycle and sniffing cocaine will only make him angry, if you want to show him that you are a grown man... make decissions for yourself.

You don't live at home any more right?

[Myth]

Your father sounds a lot like my mother... both control freaks that think they can do no wrong and will justify their actions anyway possible... I finally managed to get out of my mothers thumb after I had my first child. I don't suggest that you or your sis run out and have kids at all, that won't solve anything... I woke up one day and somehow overnight it seems I grew a back bone. I pretty much told her that I wasn't going to be the excuse for her failures and I wasn't going to be her scape goat or her maid anymore. That I had to do what is best for my unborn child and that she needed to grow up. All she could do was look at me like I was a stranger. Which I was, she nor anyone else had ever seen me stick up for myself before, now I do. So my advice to you is to take a stand even if it means that he'll be ticked off. He will eventually be proud that you had the guts to do so in the first place. My mother now respects me like an adult most of the time, sometimes I have to remind her that I'm not that doormat of ten years ago. I just kind of talk to her like I would a small child that doesn't understand why things have to change and I pity her for that. She has grown a lot in ten years since that happened and realizes that I have too. So stand up for what you want because nobody is going to do it for you. Grow a backbone, cause it's your independence at stake. If he wants you to be a man and a success then give him just what he wants, stand up to your greatest advisary and learn that you can't be who your destined to be until you get out from under that thumb. Encourage your sis to do the same. Misery love company... is this the company you want to keep?

[kp2171]

Yes, your fathers actions are abusive, regardless of his historical and ethical background. I have a good friend who is from iran, married to a woman from Nebraska, U.S. his relationship is a little patriarchal, as in he runs the show and is mostly in control. I worked with him for some time, with him as a supervisor and there were times when if you argued with him he'd get an attitude about his way was the only answer... but again, this is something you can find in all people.

As for you. You might see some trends that you have, similar to your father. I have a few of my fathers bad habits too... but they are mine, not his, and its up to me to do the right things.

You are young enough you have a lot of living to do. Please don't waste that time and then blame your father for your inaction. If school isn't your thing, OK. Find something to be vested in and pursue it. You really want to go your own way, you can.

You're at a place where all of the options can be even more confusing and it can be harder to move because until now you've rarely been given the choice. Well... wish it were easier, but the life you always wanted is now.

You are old enough to pursue the freedom of choices you've wanted for so long. Do something with it.

You are young enough to make mistakes and still have time to figure things out. Start soon.

[AKaeTrue]

Dear Brad21,
Please realize that self-destruction, [QUOTE=brad21]
I really want to drive a motorcycle, and sniff cocaine, only to piss him off.[/QUOTE, would only prove that you let your father "get the best of you" and nothing more.
Be the better person, make the first move on learning the communication skills listed above - they and other books like them really do help. Even if your good example does not rub off on your father, you will have learned the vital communication skills you will need to have a happy marriage and a strong bond with your own children. Break the cycle! You can do it!

In my life, I'm the one trying to break the cycle. I noticed my children and I bumping heads to the point to where it was affecting our relationship and my marriage. The lack of communication skills almost tore my family apart. I didn't think I was saying or doing anything wrong either because the things I said, pointed out, and got really angry over were all genuine reasons; however, it was the way I came about different situations with the words I chose to use.
(It was the way I was raised and the only thing I knew)
It's likely not going to be an easy task for your father. It's incredibly difficult to change who we are after it has been programed into our brains. I've been doing a better communication program everyday for 1 year and 3 months and I still mess up.
Good luck to you and your family,
-Kae

[Fr_Chuck]

Parents are what they are, and now as adult children you are not going to change them, Your choice now is to keep in contact with them or him or not to.

As adults they only control you if you let them, if you answer the phone to them, or hang up if they say certain things, or just let the machine take it whenever they call. So you or he can not change what the past was, all you can do is goon from here.

[YeloDasy]

I am sorry that you are so angry and hold such a resentment. I do agree with some posts that your father has some normal concerns... BUT he is very controlling, manipulative, and has some abusive traits. I don't know if it comes from culture(to answer your question) but I do know that what really matters is how you were effected. Because you have such anger and rsentment, going to cunseling will help understand your own thoughts and feelings better as well as stop the cycle of behavior that you do not like in your father. Even though we may not like something, if it is all we know and understand, the cycle will continue. So please go talk to someone... let someone give you feedback and ongoing support. You are doing right thing by wanting to talk it out and understand... and you need someone to validate who you are and what you think, feel, and value in life... and that is what counselors can do for you! Keep us posted!

[JoeCanada76]

Personally, your father is emotionally abusive. Emotional abuse can be or is more harmful then physical abuse. Physical heals, emotional wounds remain deep if not dealt with.

[aqua@home]

Personally, your father is emotionally abusive. Emotional abuse can be or is more harmful then physical abuse. Physical heals, emotional wounds remain deep if not dealt with.

Yes, yes, yes... this is so true.

As stated before, I think it wouldn't hurt to get some counselling. Like Fr. Chuck said, as an adult you have choices. Please choose to lead a healthy life for you. Good luck.

[brad21]

Look all this psychological stuff about family dynamics, communication, taking responsibility for your own life, letting your children make their own mistakes are things my mother is trying to tell him for years, but he is so narrow minded he simply does not understand these things, he is simply very nervous, overprotective and demanding, and also frustrated, miserable and lonely. Every time when we try to discuss certain things with him, he simply gets mad and argumentative. He sees his strict, authoritarian, overconcerned and interfearing behaviour as totally normal. I understand most parents have these things. But once he went to a psychologist when I was 14, to discuss trouble he was having with me, I was in puberty. This therapist told him, all parents had concerns and every family had difficulties, but his behaviour was not normal at all, and if he would continue with this, he would lose his children. He literally said to my father ''Sir, I think I have a very sad message for you, but you have already lost your son, I've seen these patterns so many times eventually when your sonis older he will hate you and walk away from you'' All tis man said to my father was my father had to let me go, my father saw giving me freedom and responsibility as abandoning me and seeing me end up like a junkie or a alcoholic. MY father's response to what psychologists said, was simply, ''these western psychologists do not know what love for your children means'' I mean I am outragous right now, I feel the only way I can live a normal life is a life without my father. Although in some ways he is nice, loving and caring I simply just hate him. I do not know why, but I hate him for ruining my childhood. For the mess he made in my life.
If he would e less pressuring and overprotective I would have been almost graduated by now. I flunk 2 times in high school, en 2 years in college.
I really feel cursed by my father, as if the only way to get rid of him, is really telling him straight is his face that he is a worthless *******, who only made my life miserable. I said these thing sin the past, things like ''You are a worthless dad" ''**** off'' GEt out of my life'' You will never ever see me again'' ''You should never have had me as a child'' ''I never was happy in this home'' It simply doenst get through, he doesn't understand what he does wrong. Telling him nicely, my mother went to several counselors with him,
tells him in a normal way certain things are unpleasant. He only get rational and agumentative, denying what he does, and putting the entire blame on us. Or he angrily walks away
I also feel as if I can't really explain it, like give concrte examples, it his just a certain attidude which overshadows himf or the most part.
SO you see nothing helps, hard confrontation doesn't help, relationship counseling doesn't help, talking does not help. I want my father to really go away out of my life at least temporalily, maybe for good. I've seen it with others also they all have unstable lifes, because of problematic (not abusive) family situations.

[Myth]

You can't change him so stop trying. Change you. Walk away if you need to.. I finally had to and didn't talk to my mother for years. You are an adult and there is no reason that you shouldn't be able to live your own life, but if you don't make the decision to go then he's going to keep doing this and you, as an adult, will keep letting him. Walk away for awhile. Let those emotions heal a bit and stand up for what you believe in... Yourself. If you let this hate get to you your going to turn out just like him... Do you really want to become just another statistic? Or are you ready to grow up?

[valinors_sorrow]

Yes, it is abusive. But that isn't the most urgent problem...

One of the worst features that takes place in a dysfunctional family is the overrunning of boundaries and the subsequent mixing up of what is who's responsibility. It makes for everyone shifting blame to anyone but themselves which really keeps them trapped. I hear you saying "IF ONLY my dad ______, then I could be happy." I would bet THOSE kind of statements are rampant in your family.

It is a big fat lie. It is a big fat lie that you need to blow up in a pile of mental dynamite. It is a big fat lie that until you get HOW big and HOW fat and HOW lying it is... you will remain his willing victim. You will be doing it to you but blaming him... because that's what you all do.

The truth is this: there is nothing stopping you from getting clear of him and living happy, joyous and free... except for your unwillingness to do what it takes. How do I know this? I used to be exactly where you are and I am not anymore.

There are a great many good posts here on this thread. After you put your "I AM RESPONSIBLE" mindset on, I suggest you reread through them and take up what they suggest and get a plan going for your exit strategy from the madness. It is up to you.

[Myth]

I totally agree with val (sorry had the spread it around message). It's your life and your resposible for it.

[Krs]

Yes totally, using the phrase " If only___________ "
Regrets are episodes from the past that come to haunt you in the present.
They are not worthed... keep moving forward!

[katekylemom]

Your dad may have come from a family which did not communicate very well. He seems pissed off about something, but don't hurt yourself to get back at him. Do what you want to do in Life. Don't live for him. He may live for a hell of a long time ! You might as well live a fun, friendly, enjoyed Life. If that doesn't include him, then so be it. Good Luck.

[s_cianci]

Your father is a troubled man. I'd cut off any and all contact with him and encourage your mother and sister to do the same, until he gets professional help. If he refuses, then ces't la vie, let him go back to the Middle East and "have his beautiful wife and live like a king." Something tells me that if he really could have done all that he would have. Your family does not deserve to take this kind of abuse so you all need to make up your minds not to.

[marey]

Dear people, i have got a serious problem i sometimes really wonder my my father's behaviour is abusive. Although there is no form of physical abuse, he does get mad and has tempertantrums on a regular basis, like daily or weekly.
Shouting, Yelling, Criticizing, Interfering with everything we doe. Ever since i was a small child he was constantly blaming us for his own misery, and he said things like i'm fed up with you i'm going to pack my bags and leave.
I can easily go to thirdworld country with my money and live like a king, and have a beautifull wife. I don't feel apprecatiated, ik work my *** of to take care of you, you don't deserve my goodness and love. Also he is constantly complaining about other people, i mean constantly, everytime the same story, i think i've really heard it for literally 1000 times now. And when i tell him yeah you already told me, he gets mad andt ells me it's rude.
Also he is very controlling, even though I am twenty two ad my sister is twenty, wiht me it's less, but still he acts very controlling and overprotective towards my sister. Always calling, sometimes yelling through the phone to immediatly come home or asking where she is.
Also he is very lonely and has no real friends. His family is al he has left in this world, and the only way he feels useful is by taking care and protecting us. My mother used to be very dependant, seeing my dad as a fatherfigure, when she got depressed and sought psychological help he disapproved it al the time. He was very offensive towards psychologists, didn't want to have anything to do with them.When my mother got mentally stronger and started living her own life he started constantly to get mad, demanding that she woudl spend more time wiht the family. Everytime when she siad she was gone for the weekend to some alternative course, he always got angry at her.
Accsuing her of abandoning him, not caring for him, not appreciating him.
Everytime when my mother started to explain him, that also he had to change, not to be so negative al the time, and stop critisizing others and start lookign at himself, he always got very angry, defensive, and argumentative. Always rationalizing everything away and blaming my mother.
Nothing was right, what she did, everytime when she did something he always responden negatively and unthankfull.
He always said he was sick of her, or putting her down by saying she was fat. ALways saying he enough of her and wanted to divorce, and later he said he loved her again. When after months of this behaviour my mother told
him she wanted a divorce, he got extremely angry, yelling at her all night, rationalizing blaming, giving her all the fault. He also sees his behaviour as perfectly normal, and believes he is right and we are wrong.
My father comes from the Middle East by the way, and I do not know whether that plays a role in this whole situation. My mother is American.
He also failed his own studies, and was always pressuring me from childhood to become an important person, to be the best in school, to go to college.
Now i see myself going down the same track, i failed 2 studies in college, and flunked 3 classes in highschool. Although i am intelligent enough to fulfill a academic study, I am somehow extremely demotivated, i simply have a total lack of motivation and discipline, also 2 characteristics of my father.
I simply do not know, what to do. Is my father an abusive person, or are most fathers, especially middle eastern fathers, this way ?
Also i feel that the only way I can succeed in life is by, going my own way, and have absolutly no interference or advise from both of my parents. I hate it being controlled all the time, even when i left home for college, they still had to interfer, like calling on a regular basis, start preaching me every weekend i was home. I hate it to feel responsable for my father. Like if i fail i will embarrass him, and displease him. It is so important for him that me and and sister really succeed, he dissaproves of choices we make on our own.
Like for example my sister wanted to go to nursing school, which is one level below medschool, and my dad insisted my sister would go to medschool abraod, if here she would not qualify, and even asked me to talk this idea out of her head. With me he is always stressing that he wants me to go into politics, and to become a diplomat. he desperatly wanted me to join an egalitarian fraternity, and even insisted on cleaning toilets to pay it for me.
Always projecting his own unfulfilled ambitions on me. Everytime my mother tries to tell him we have our own life, and our own choices, and we have to make our own mistakes, he simply gets angry, and tells her she does not understand. Letting my children go their own way, and seeing them go down the tubes !!!!! Everytime my mom tells him he is too overprotective, demanding, strict and interfering, he simply starts to get md and rationalizes everythign away. Like for example my sister is 19 and wants to go on vacation on her own to spring break in mexico, and my father says no, that's not a place for a descent girl like you, by the way girls get drunk and get raped there i can't leave my daughter there. I don't want you to return home with aids, you know really those kind of things. He says these things all the time. I am really ****in fed up with it. When i was in college he even came all the way across the state like 3 hours, because I didn't pick up my cell phone.
Really this man really made my life and my childhood and teenage years a living hell. The problem is also that he is constantly in denial, and really believes he gives us all the freedom in the world, and is not a strict father.
I really regret the fact i didn't have the guts to rebel against my father when i was like 15 or 16, always being so obedient, afraid to displease.
Even though I am 22 years and lived on my own for 2 years, i still have like allot of resentment, fear and anger of my childhood. I moved to the other side of the state, but the fear of displeasing him, the feeling of being controlled, the anger towards him still haunted me. It jsut didn't go away.
I know it's a long stroy, but i really need to get this off my chest.
Is there anyone who can help me, or give me advise, or at least refelct on my story and tell me what you think of it.

Brad

Hello

I think you might gain some insight into this kind of behaviour at this site:http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/

Although it is a site where books are sold, there is lots of information you can read for nothing. It may apply to your father??

The next step would be to see a psychologist to understand how your father and your upbringing is affecting you today.

Best of luck