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    Chuie's Avatar
    Chuie Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Sep 20, 2007, 04:18 AM
    Frazzeled dad 6yr old out of controle
    My question.. Ah I have so many. Well for starters let me explain the situation.
    I'm a dad and have 2 kids My son 6 and my daughter 1 year old. Both were preemies. And both have had problems. My daughter is mostly a slow crawler and is part of the early intervention program. That is helping her a lot as well as me. But at this point she seems to be doing good they point out a week spot and her and I work on it, the next week she is drastically improved. But the problem is more my son, both children show advances in some areas early on and delays as well. Ok so my son is very very high energy so much so at age 6 he has a full 8 pack and more mussel tone then I had when I was 18. He does a “happy dance” as his school calls it a lot we call it pogoing cause he pogos up and down every time he gets excited. He is also very science orientated water, air light manipulation have been his favorite things since he was about 2 years old. As far as school goes he is in a transitional kindergarten it's a 2 year kindergarten mostly for kids who can't handle regular kindergarten. The problem is he is a very aggressive kid. We are still battling the potty training thing and now we are up to almost a complete 4 days with out an accident during the day. Any way I can only assume my wife and myself have done something wrong with him and I would like to correct what ever I can and not repeat the same mistakes with my daughter. I am a firm believer is there is no such thing as a bad kid but a bad parent. Because children are the mirror of the parents teachings. If he is asked to help with anything he tells us he doesn't have to. If we try to work on letters or reading or numbers he won't even try and will usually tell us he can't do it when he is on the low extreme and will go so far as to shred the paper and hit and yell at us on the furthest extreme. But according to his teachers he can count to 20 with out problems and I hear him sing his abc's from a to z when he thinks no one is around. If I put him in time out (he has been spending a lot of time there lately)he will yell at me and tell me I'm not his any more and that he is going to take all my stuff away or that he is going to get a big chain and lock me out of the house. I usually tell him the more he talks in time out the longer it is going to be and we will go around and around about this until he calms down and then he is quiet so much that I can forget he is siting there till he asks to get out of time out. I let him out and he will come to me and say “I like you dad” and go off and build something with a fan or piping or some small low voltage wiring. That's something I didn't menchion normal kids toys are of no interest to him when he was 2 he got his first fan plugged it in put a toy funnel to it and showed me how he could use the air pressure to blow balloons and papers across the room. He was able to with the limited vocabulary of a 2 year old
    explain the printable very well. When he is inventing and making things he is very happy and talkative friendly a great kid. I call that the B personality but if someone even me touches his creations comes to close or turns off the power to his machines he goes back to the A personality abusive verbally as well as physically he has taken a broom handle and attacked me with it. Getting him to eat most times unless he has stated he is hungry is a battle with the A personality and even if he has said he is hungry if he doesn't have food in a few minuets he isn't hungry any more and it's battle time again bed time is the same problem I spent over an hour fighting with him to brush his teeth the other day. As much as I don't like doing it there have been times I have had to physically restrain him so myself or others don't get hurt. Even though I do be leave in spankings it's always a last resort. I am at a complete loss as to what to do or as to what I may have done wrong. I don't want to medicate him. But I have had people suggest lithium and I have changed his diet a lot reduced sugars carbs increased proteins fed him real food fruits and vegetables red meet varying degrees of done from well to rare. The only thing that seems to help is a cup of coffee. I tried it when I heard that stimulants work in revised on kids and I have to say the coffee does help but only for about an hour and he is back at full speed again. He wakes about 5 am and is not forced to go to bed he will fall asleep at about 3 am. I have taken him to a therapist about his anger when he was about 2 ˝ and then the therapist though within the first meeting he might be a little autistic but then only wanted to teach us how to play with him and not diagnose to find out. His teachers think he may be ADHD. But when I talked to the school counselor he just said we needed to test him and never went any further then that. He is a very literal little boy I use to tell him I love him to peaces. Till I found out he thought I was going to make him into peaces. I am going to talk to his teacher as soon as possible to see where I can go from hear. She is willing to help with the continued attempts at stabilizing him with food chemistry. There has to be something I'm missing. It seems most therapist want to get kids on riddlin or a similar drug. My parents fought tooth and nail to keep me off the stuff and I will do the same for my son. Any clues as to what I can do would be greatly appreciated. Like I said before I want to correct what ever was done wrong and avoid making the same mistakes with my daughter thanks in advance.

    PS sorry this is so long
    Sen2nell's Avatar
    Sen2nell Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
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    #2

    Sep 20, 2007, 07:08 AM
    Dear Chuie,
    Boy do you pay attention! I think you are a sensitive and caring parent. To me, this is a really good sign. I've observed, most people are unaware of their children's behavior issues. AT least you (and your wife) are staying on top of what is going on with your children. My suggestion? Don't sweat it so much. You (and Wife) are doing great. Your son's potty training? How many people do you see going off to college with a box of Pampers? It's not worth being upset about. Eventually, everyone gets there! Years ago, MY Mother tried to box me in about the issue so I gave her the 'long look' and told her, "they've found out most sexual issues are based on potty training!" Boy did that get her off my back but quick! Nothing is ever resolved in a day. My Mom DID say something to me that is really profound though: She told me children only learn one thing at a time. I believe this is true. You and your wife need to relax and enjoy the kids. If you relax and take life slower your son might relax more too. Give it a try! Childhood is such a brief time and if you get caught up in all the 'should do' things you will not be able to enjoy these wonderful years. Your son sounds delightful. Remember: Einstein's elementary school teachers though he was slow ('developmentally delayed') too!
    canadianzuzzie's Avatar
    canadianzuzzie Posts: 15, Reputation: 2
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    #3

    Sep 20, 2007, 07:10 AM
    First of all I am in no way a expert... You wrote 'My parents fought tooth and nail to keep me off the stuff and I will do the same for my son"... why were you considered for riddlin? Did you exhibit similar trait? Could he be autistic? I have heard of children who are autistic that show higher then normal intelligence and yet be behind in other areas such as toilet training or social interaction. As far as spanking or other physical punishment is concerned I would not use physical punishment to correct physical punishment... it really sends the wrong message. You can not hit me so I will hit you... but I certainly would restrain him from hitting me or anyone else. What exactly do you do if he hits another child? What are your reactions to his negative behaviour? Is he in regular school?
    froggy7's Avatar
    froggy7 Posts: 1,801, Reputation: 242
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    #4

    Sep 20, 2007, 07:42 PM
    I have to say, from what you have posted, that I would be considering some extensive testing of your child. I'm hesitant to say that he has a problem (autism, asperger's, etc.), because I'm no doctor, but it does sound like he may not be "wired" the same as other people. Testing will help you determine that a lot faster than simply trying to fix things by adjusting diet, etc. (Not saying that doing that might not be the solution. Just that it will be much faster to test and find out that eliminating X is the answer than to work through everything X might be randomly.)

    Also, I know that many people think Ritalin is the devil's drug. But my brother has been on it since his teens. When he's on it, he's a great guy, enjoyable to be around, able to hold a conversation, etc. When he goes off the drug, he talks so much that people do not want to be around him, can't sit still, etc. My parents didn't want him on drugs, either, but I have to wonder if his social skills would be better now if they had. Kids can be cruel, and he got teased and harassed a lot when younger, couldn't concentrate in class, etc. which has had an impact on how he sees himself and interacts with other people now. So don't rule the possibility out entirely. For those people who really need it, it can be a life-saver. Which isn't to say that it's not over-prescribed. However, the fact that the coffee helps calm him down does point to a possible chemical imbalance which Ritalin might help.

    Now the unfortunate thing is that I don't know HOW you would go about getting your son tested. I'd try starting with the pediatrician. I'm thinking that you want to work with a neurologist (to see if there is a physical issue with brain... it could simply be wired differently, and that could help you find ways to work with the differences), and possibly a behavioral expert, who might be able to tell you something from how he acts in different situations. But I'd start with the pediatrician.
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,298, Reputation: 5646
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    #5

    Sep 20, 2007, 07:58 PM
    Wow.

    First of all I have to say that you sound like a very good parent. Second of all, your son is 6. He SHOULD be potty trained by now.

    BUT, he was a premie. How premature was he? Yes, this does make a difference as premies usually are a little behind full term babies.

    Next, I have to ask you if you have brought up these issues with your pediatrician. This is important. He NEEDS to be tested for many things at this point.

    As for Ritalin, I understand your concerns. However, if your son does indeed have ADD or ADHD you do realize there are many many other medications on the market other than Ritalin. Ritalin does not work on every child and should NOT be prescribed for every child.

    When you read this post, please pick up the phone and make an appointment with your pediatrician. There are behavior issues that concern me, yet I don't know how you handle these issues. Remember, YOU are the parent, NOT your son. There are many ways to parent your children that do not include laying on of hands, yelling, belittling, etc.

    WHOA, I need to back up. DID I SEE THAT YOU ARE GIVING HIM COFFEE? Is this according to your doctor's advice?

    I have to giggle at your saying that you used to love him to pieces. Children at this age are very literal thinkers. We have to be very careful what we say to them. They take it EXACTLY as we say it.

    As far as foods, you will have to completely change the diet of the entire household. One additive that tends to cause trouble is red dye. It is found in MANY foods, including most hot dogs.

    Please contact your pediatrician.
    Chuie's Avatar
    Chuie Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Sep 21, 2007, 01:35 AM
    Why was I considered for Ritalin I was a fairly hyper active kid as far as the school was concerned. With an over active sense of what was right and wrong. So I would correct my teachers a lot as long as I knew and could prove I was right and would tell them where to stick it when I felt they had crossed the line. Needless to say teachers don't like being corrected or told off by a 3rd grader and I may have given that trait to my son 1 of the calls I got from his teacher was because they were teaching that all fish lay eggs and Devon tried to correct me when I told him that his female molly was going to have babes “no dad all fish lay eggs my teacher told me so.” admittedly I was in a grumpy mood cause we were going through the bed time battle and I did not censor myself so I told him “his teacher didn't know what she was talking about some fish don't lay eggs they have live young and before she taught something she should know what she is teaching” needless to say he went to school and told her “my dad says you don't know what your talking about some fish don't lay eggs they have babes” admittedly that was when I started to realize I need to censor myself at all times around him. It is possible he could be autistic when we went to the therapist for that short time she said that she thought he was autistic cause he was obsessed with fans and cause of the way his mind works as far as science go's. When Devon hits others the punishment vary depending on the severity most time he gets a time out and me yelling for about 10 minutes giving him a lecture on how he shouldn't hit any one. My usual reaction to his behaver is tolerance till I reach my breaking point then it's yelling. He is in a 2 year kindergarten called transitional kindergarten. As far as the pediatrician goes we did start there but it didn't go anywhere all he wants to do is say it's just faze and he will grow out of it. Or he says he's just trying to get attention I think it's time to find another pediatrician that will take his medical plan. As far as the potty training goes I know at 6 he should already have it down but on the good news front today is day 4 and he got up on his own to go tonight and went back to bed by himself I have to celebrate the small victories. In case it helps any one who might be reading this and has the same problem and any one who might be curious. My son is on a goody system so every day he goes with out going in his pants or having an accident he gets 1 point after 4 days he gets a supper goody in most cases it's a small box of Legos the only normal toy he likes or a string of LED Christmas lights or a small fan. Admittedly when he gets up and goes on his own and goes back to bed at night I give him 2 points me breaking the rules a little. But even though in the past 2 years he has gotten 4 supper goodies 2 in the last 2 months I feel There is progress being made. Sorry had to gloat a bit. He was a little over a month preemie and my daughter was 2 months and little bit. Can you give me an idea what things he needs to be tested for so I can convince the pediatrician to test for it. The coffee is not really agents or with the Dr's advice when I told him about it he told me that if it seems to help it won't hurt him. I have heard that red and yellow dyes are known to cause some problems and will try to do some testing with and with out it. Although I have found that when he has tuna fish the B personality comes out more often but he hates tuna and he loves home made mac and cheese. Thanks again
    JoeCanada76's Avatar
    JoeCanada76 Posts: 6,669, Reputation: 1707
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    #7

    Sep 21, 2007, 02:21 AM
    When you said that he spends most of his time in time out, may I ask what do you put him in time out for? Just curious, You have got so much help from everybody here. Good luck with everything and I am sure things will work out. You just have to be persistent and get tests done and get people to follow through with help. It also caught my attention when you said your parents fought to keep you off medications. These traits must be similar to yours? So is this behaviour genetic? I am sure he will grow up to be a very smart and calm boy. Just continue to love him and also try to show patience even when frustrated.

    Edit::::::::

    I know that you say you want things to be different with your daughter. Just remember that every single child is different. They react differently and learn at different paces. Especially between girls and boys.

    Another question is what age did you try to start to potty train? How did you do it?

    Joe
    canadianzuzzie's Avatar
    canadianzuzzie Posts: 15, Reputation: 2
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    #8

    Sep 21, 2007, 04:49 AM
    I like how you use positive reinforcement in the potty issue. Have you tried anything in practicing to control or redirect the aggressiveness? Perhaps finding another outlet for his anger... punching bag, bongo drums something that he could do when he felt overwhelmed... and reward him when he uses it. Explaining that everyone gets angry and that he needs to outlet it in a appropriate manner. Also there was a excellent point made about how you avoiding medication could hurt him socially. I do not know if your son needs medication or not, if his behavior is a result of a learning disability, social delay due to being a premature or something in the food reaction, allergy vein BUT if he needs medication... really needs it to function. I would try it if I were you. I can whole heartedly see your reluctance to medicating your child but if it is necessary and you wait to explore that option he may end up suffering socially. Kids can be cruel and he's at the age where there is still some acceptance for differences. If he CAN'T begin to interact socially NOW it will be harder for him to gain acceptance among his peers in a year or two. By then he may be labeled, by the children and by the other parents.
    I would call your Dr. immediately, she would be more informed about what kind of testing is necessary for your son. Do not discount medication based on the fact that it is widely overprescribed and that many kids are on it that may not need to be... YOUR son may be one of the ones that NEEDS to be on it.
    LEILA007's Avatar
    LEILA007 Posts: 29, Reputation: 7
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    #9

    Sep 21, 2007, 05:27 AM
    You do have your hands full. First thing is consistency very important! Stand firm always , pick your battles with him and remember you are the parent!! Don't argue with him for it gives him a reason to argue back let him scream on a time out but ignore it he will see its not working. And will soon stop. The attention you give him when he is in mode is what he's looking for. Time outs at this age should be more go to your room and when you are ready to act approiate let me know I started it on my 4 yr old and it seems to work better. Its something when he comes out calm and says I'm ready to act approiate.

    The school should be on top of this you are entitled to have an evaluation given to him imm... they cannot refuse you . Try contacting the scool board dist. you also need for him to see a phsycharist, he as well should give him a physic eval in which you should also take to the school.

    Keep him busy find things for him 2 do to use his energy in a positive manner. Running, skating, etc... they will also knock him out. As far as meds if his temper countinues to become violent you may want to reconsider, not just anything research. Sometimes it may help him focus better or keep him calm.

    I have an adopted 15yr old whom acted the same at 6. these things do work at times. Keep your mind open remember its for your son. If you don't want your daughter acting similar you need to change tactics for she will learn from him. When he does act out take her out of the room its important, as she may not have the same issues she will pick up on it espically. The fact that he has become violent with you he need to know that is noway tolerated and let him know. You need to remain calm at all times(I know its hard) but if you loose it so will he. If he has no one to argue with there will be less arguing.

    I know not many of us have time for it but start a point system for every day he behaves put a star on his sheet or when he uses the potty, this will give him the initiative to do better, reward him at the end of the week with something for doing good. We all like to know when we do good things. Change your words instead of bad use inapproiate behavior . The less you scream he will start to notice. The more he scream the quiter he gets.

    A lot of these tecniques came from a theripist it may work... good luck..

    There is help out there use it start with the school they must evaulate him upon his request. Let me know what happens I mayhave a few helpful #"s
    bushg's Avatar
    bushg Posts: 3,433, Reputation: 596
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    #10

    Sep 21, 2007, 05:38 AM
    j9 my sons pediatrician told me to give my son coffee. My son was only 2. He said to give it to him at bedtime when I had exhausted all efforts. That was 14 years ago.

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