Has man really never seen a living dinosaur?

I'm not trying to "convince" anyone, to believe what I believe. If you did decide to "conceed to my hypothesis" I'm not going to jump up and down for joy, because I'm not here to try to convince you or turn your personal beliefs around.

Also, a lot of people claim to be "evolutionists" but if it takes a science guru to tell them what to believe about the theory, how are any of them right?

Any of these artifacts can be viewed / searched through search engines. I personally have not kept records of where I have seen these items exactly but they are easily found with Google images and the various links from there. Whether a particular web site meets your approval is entirely up to you but I expect if they are websites that suggest the creation belief system that it will be immediately dismissed by you as nonsense.

One link I just found still in my P.C. Is Welcome to 6000years.org - Proof the Bible is True

Some of these items may even be on peoples blogs too, but that does not nullify there existence or peoples opinions on them.

If I were to personally find something spectacular that called into question the supposed old-time scale of things and photographed it to put on my own blog, that would not mean it did not exist, and if I were to give it to someone to to study, it would be interpreted as to someone's `belief system` be it evolutionary or creationism.

Sorry to also take so long to answer sometimes, I am a single dad with a lot on my plate.

In other words: no - there are no peer reviewed articles on these "artifacts." Tim - the problem is that in science we must rely on the collective wisdom of recognized experts to evaluate and pass judgment on the validity of scientific claims. Web sites such as the one you cited are not at all about science - but rather are about trying to "prove" the validity of a group's religous beliefs. They have little to no crediblility in the scientific communiyt NOT because they go against a particular "belief system," but because they fail to adhere to the basic tenets of the scientific process.

Tim - I am not at all trying to persuade you or anyone else that a particular belief system is wrong. I am only interested in making sure that beliefs that are grounded in faith - and not science - but that are presented here as being "scientific" should be challenged, given that this is a science forum.

Ill take a quick stab at answering the creationists.

Do you believe in GPS? Do you think its based on science, or is it magic?

Ok, if you believe that GPS technology can pinpoint your location on earth, and that it's based on science, let me give you a quick physics lesson. Yes, I know this is a paleontology board, but you brought religion into it.

All GPS technology requires a clock. A very accurate clock. This kind of accuracy cannot be achieved with a mechanical, or quartz movement watch. You need an atomic clock.

How does an atomic clock work? Interesting question, glad you asked. It measures the radioactive decay of a isotope. Our science has progressed to the point that we can measure the decay of isotopes to millionths of a second! The 'proof' that we know how isotopes work is on glorious display every time someone can find the local chemist in their car. (assuming they don't run down that lady in the crosswalk when they should be watching the road instead of that little screen)

Now, here is the fun part. How do we know the age of the Earth? It's the same technology! We measure the isotopes and daughter elements of Uranium! We can then cross check those dates to the dates of other similar isotopes in different layers of rock, and different locations around the world! Amazingly, all those different locations and isotopes all point to the same date. 4.5 billion years.

Conveniently, most volcanic eruptions deposit a nice fresh layer of isotopes when they erupt. So if we find fossils under a layer of volcanic ash, its quite easy to date the age of those fossils. They are just a bit older than the ash!

So, next time you want to disbelieve the age of the earth, stop using your GPS. Or your cell phone. Or your computer. Or fly in an airplane. Or believe that the US bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki in World War 2. Or use power from a nuclear power plant. Or buy your kid a glow in the dark poster. Or........

I would like to add a few things to this conversation.

1) I agree science is a belief system. Because almost all of science is based on theory and it changes constantly. It has no bearing on realiability or accuracy. It simply is. That is the birthplace of our knowlage pool. Science.

2) Did man live with dinosaurs. My belief is no. But has man seen dinasaurs. Yes. But not living ones. Bones appear all the time. The wash out or are exposed from being covered for very long periods. And if primative man were to see the t-rex in skeletal form they would presume it to be living and create legend.

3) As far as the clocks the help with GPS. One additive that wasn't explained is that the clocks in space are set to run slower to compensate for those on the ground. It is the only way for them not to gain time and therefore maintain an accurate feedback for the GPS system.

Very well said jaime90, you make a valid point. I believe people over complicate this stuff which leads to confusion, it is all over the place with the explanation of how old the Earth is, how there is no general consenus on any of it including evolution. I like the simple stuff, often people over look that, its like trying to fix a car and you take the whole engine apart before you discover the batery cable was disconnected.