I feel a little bit guilty for posting in here while I am in mourning and observing shiva... but I'm having trouble sleeping again and I guess this is a bit of a distraction for me. If you're curious what I'm talking about, please read my thread under bereavement:

http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/bereavement/tragic-news-22654.html

Anyways, these are 2 simple questions about wine and spirits. I know that some Christians and most Muslims do not drink any alcohol. My first question is, can they cook with alcohol? Because with most recipes, the actual alcohol evaporates during the cooking.

My second question is for Christians who don't drink alcohol. Didn't Jesus drink? I remember reading in the NT that some people called him a drunkard, and also that he turned water into wine at a wedding. Or maybe what he drank wasn't alcohol as we know it today?

Anyways I'm just really curious about both, so if anyone wants to enlighten me I'd appreciate it, thanks!

Fr_Chuck

Hello, first those that don't use alchohol don't use it at all in any mannor, including cooking.

But it is only the very small percentage of Christians that don't drink at all.
Most merley teach it is sinful to drink in large amounts. Catholics, Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican, Episcopal, Methodist ( and I know I am forgetting some) all allow drinking. It is merley what I call some of the more newer churches ( have to remember Chrsitianity is over 2000 years old, so any church that is only a couple hundred years old is new in the history of Christianity. Many have returned to a more legalistic view point of Christianity.

Those that don't beleive in drinking will say that Jesus just drank grape juice not wine. Showing of course a lack of understanding of the Jewish culture and history. One can not use grape juice in one passage where Jesus is doing it, and then wine where it warns against excessive drinking.

But that is what is so great about American Christianity, everyone is allowed to start thier own religion using thier own beliefs.

fredg

Hi,
It depends on the particular beliefs in any particular religious church or denomination.
For example, our own church takes the "Lord's Supper" every Sunday, which is grape juice, believing that Jesus also drank grape juice at the "Last Supper".

orange

Thanks to both of you for the great answers. But Fred, do you know why your church thinks Jesus drank grape juice and not wine? Like do you have some sort of explanation for that? That's what I'm curious about. Because I know that at the Last Supper, Jesus was celebrating the Jewish festival of Passover, and at Passover wine has always been used.

Jesushelper76

I never heard of that before, Call it me being ignorant maybe, but Jesus drinking grape juice, that is so funny, I fell off my chair and broke an arm. Wine was such an important symbol and tradition in Jesus days.

Joe

jduke44

I was taught that back then water wasn't as pure as it is today (well to some point anyways) so the wine helped to purify it some. I think I am using the correct terminology. I am not sure who in my church drinks and don't drink but I know in my old church we had a few that liked to have a glass of wine here and there. I think the ones who absolutely restrict it, it's because they don't want even the appearance of evil so by drinking would give the appearance that you might hang out in bars or something. This is only my interpretation and viewpoint.

I know when I was first born again I was drinking and had a hard time giving it up so I did it slowly until I finally gave it up permenantly. I know my wife would not appreciate me drinking even a drop and that is only bc of my past. This is why I don't drink.

Also, my old church (and probably the church we go ot now) don't allow you to drink if you are a leader of some sort. That means a head of a ministry, elder, etc.

Our church takes grape juice for communion (Lord's supper) however, that is not bc we believe Jesus drank grape juice. It is probably bc the church don't want to be responsible in a recovery alcoholic (or anyone for that matter) to taste a drink.

You do have so many different views and hopefully others will give insight to either what their church believes or what they have witnessed or heard.

orange

Haha. Well I hadn't heard of the grape juice idea either, so don't feel bad!

And thanks jduke, your explanation makes a lot of sense to me actually. Your church's reasoning has more to do with alcoholism or alcohol abuse than the fact that Jesus drank wine, and I can understand that. Actually what is done in synagogue for kaddish, there is always a bottle of wine and a bottle of kosher grape juice. People who can't drink wine for medical reasons can then easily take the grape juice. Interestingly enough though, Jews can also observe kaddish using whiskey or vodka. At least where I live, the synagogue offers that choice as well.

And yeah I'm not interested in turning this into a debate or anything, just curious where the beliefs come from, so thanks again to everyone who's responded and feel free to add more. I'm finding it all very interesting.

arcura

orange
Most of those folks who believe it is sinful to drink alcohlic beverages do not use it in any way. But a few do use it to cook with because the alcohol is boiled or baked off in the process of cooking.
As answer to your question about Jesus and wine here is an article I wrote on the subject.
Of The Cup, Wine, And Blood
There are those who claim the Jesus never drank wine. They give a number of reasons including to claim that he was a member of the Essenee sect which was strictly religious as perhaps John the Baptizer might have been. Actually John was more likely a Nazorite. They were men who made a special religious vow which included that they could not drink any strong drink, no wine, no grape juice, in fact they could consume no part of the grape plant. The entire obligations they were sworn to can be found in the book of Numbers.
Jesus not only drank wine, he also made many gallons of it out of water. Jesus was the perfect sinless Jewish man. As such he participated in all Jewish celebrations, festivals, and rituals. Some of them required the consumption of wine for centuries before the birth of Christ and they still do.
When Jesus instituted the sacrament of the communion meal of the Last Supper (the Eucharist) it was early spring, long before fresh grapes were available from which to squeeze juice. So when Jesus spoke of "the fruit of the vine" during his last Seder (Passover Meal) He was referring to wine. In that desert country there was no way to preserve grape juice which turns to wine automatically if not kept below 34 degrees fahrenheit. A wild yeast that grows with the grapes in the field causes that to happen. Washing the grapes does not remove much of it. Boiling will kill it, but if you've ever drank boiled grape juice it's very likely you'll never do it again.
The word "wine" appears in the Holy Bible 260 times in 236 verses. The word "cup", which is often used in reference to wine, appears 64 time in 57 verses. The word blood appears 408 times in 342 verse. If a person looks up every reference to those three words (In the context to which they are used) and correlates them with each other as indicated, and still believes that Jesus did not drink wine or that he did not consecrate wine into His blood when he established the Eucharist sacrament, they paid scant attention to what they had read or they are as close minded as a bank vault with the door welded shut.
Peace ans kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Fr_Chuck

To answer the one question, various groups, Methodist, penticostals, some Lutheran and others use grape juice instead of wine.

We do offer grape juice for those in the AA program, some are so strong in the program they are afraid that even the wine would make them feel like they are breaking the program. So if we are told ahead of time someone is there that would prefer juice we make it available. Since Jesus changed water into wine, we figure he can change the juice also.

There is one group I know of ( LDS , mormons) that use water with thier commmunion instead of wine or juice.

arcura

Bishop Chuck,
I agree with your post.
But I wanted to mention that I'm an alcoholic and have been sober for 27 years.
During that time I have sipped wine of Christ's blood many times.
By His grace I have never had that cause a thirst to go back to drinking booze of any sort.
Though for the first 3 months of sobriety I abstained form the cup, after I talked with other Catholics and those others that partake of the Eucharist who had no desire to start drinking, I started sipping from the cup of my Lord.
One drop is as effective as a mouthful.
Peace and kindness,
Fred