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I feel a little bit guilty for posting in here while I am in mourning and observing shiva... but I'm having trouble sleeping again and I guess this is a bit of a distraction for me. If you're curious what I'm talking about, please read my thread under bereavement:
Anyways, these are 2 simple questions about wine and spirits. I know that some Christians and most Muslims do not drink any alcohol. My first question is, can they cook with alcohol? Because with most recipes, the actual alcohol evaporates during the cooking.
My second question is for Christians who don't drink alcohol. Didn't Jesus drink? I remember reading in the NT that some people called him a drunkard, and also that he turned water into wine at a wedding. Or maybe what he drank wasn't alcohol as we know it today?
Anyways I'm just really curious about both, so if anyone wants to enlighten me I'd appreciate it, thanks!
I fully understand, in the last church I was a priest at, we had an AA group that meet at our church. Many of the non church AA members would visit our church from time to time. Somewhere along the lines the person over that group at our church asked if we could offer a juice instead of wine. I was always of the mind blessed cup is blessed cup and God knows the intent of the persons heart. I did not want, as Paul also warned my actions to stop someone from comming and finding the Lord.
Since our faith believes in the transformation of the wine and bread, I figure that God can transform the juice as easy as he could the wine.
( or even water since he did trasform that into wine before)
I was glad to see many of the group just comming to church and did not want some of thier first experiences in a church perhaps to shun them.
But yes personally I never believed that one sip could do anay damage physcially and it would do alot of good spiritially
Cooking with wine is OK. It's not wine itself that is condemned, its the excessive use of it that can lead to drunkeness which makes a person lose partial control of his body and mind. So Jesus provided wine,
.
[b]Isaiah 24:20['b]
The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard,....
Proverbs 23:21
For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
The Bible tells us that wine may be used also for medicinal purposes and to temporarily alleviate deep sadness caused by grief or to help us cope fear of immediate death.
Proverbs 31:6
Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
The Apostle Paul recommended it to Timothy
1 Timothy 5:23
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
But its excessive use disqualified a person from leadership responsibilities within the church.and even from fellowship.
Titus 1:7
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
Titus 1:6-8
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
KJV
Cooking with wine is OK. It's not wine itself that is condemned, it's the excessive use of it that can lead to drunkeness which makes a person lose partial control of his body and mind. So Jesus didn't provide wine for excessive use.
.
Isaiah 24:20
The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard,....
Proverbs 23:21
For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
The Bible tells us that wine may be used also for medicinal purposes and to temporarily alleviate deep sadness caused by grief or to help us cope fear of immediate death.
Proverbs 31:6
Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
The Apostle Paul recommended it to Timothy
1 Timothy 5:23
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
But its excessive use disqualified a person from leadership responsibilities within the church.and even from fellowship.
Titus 1:7
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
Titus 1:6-8
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
Anything done in excess, that adversly affects one's life, I think is wrong. If you're slammed drunk every day, you're not doing anything right. You're probably not doing anything but being drunk! What about pot, weed, maryjane, grass. Is it, by nature, evil or a natural sin? If someone smokes a little here and there to relax or what ever... as opposed to a person that stays stoned 24/7? I personally don't use it but from what I have seen, pot smokers are much more "mellow" than a bar full of drunks. I think Jesus drank wine (not Welchs grape juice) but I doubt that he got fallin down drunk. He did get rowdy once though when he tore up the money changers tables...maybe he drank a little too much and wanted to kick some but.
I think from looking at history and how children drank wine and water for centuries, you can pretty much count on them drinking. I think the drinking is a sin came into effect to control those sloshy people who drank in excess. We were barbarians you know, And drunk barbarians can get bloody, mean and well a lot of bad can and did come from these days. The dark ages were dark for a reason. Hell, think back and you will find the last 100 years is a great leap compared to past years. I think the church got tired of this uncivility and made it a crime against God to get drunk. Other churches took it to various levels from no drinking to occasional. To cover the fact that drinking was legal before this church law was passed, they changed minor things like Jesus drank grape juice not wine etc etc. Do you think unfermented hot fruit juices were a constant to a poor Jesus?
Reality sayd no refrigeration, more hot beer, warm wine and water.
If you get drunk often, its not such a good thing. I totally agree with you on excess. To drink occasionally, get a good spin on is ok too, so long as you can refrain from being a complete dumb as$ and peeing on your friends couch.
When we view history lets not only listen to scholors give oration on their version of the facts but let us view history with a practical mind and through our own eyes. We will begin to see the flaws of mans opinion and the constant facts of time.
I know that some Christians and most Muslims do not drink any alcohol. My first question is, can they cook with alcohol? Because with most recipes, the actual alcohol evaporates during the cooking.
My second question is for Christians who don't drink alcohol. Didn't Jesus drink? I remember reading in the NT that some people called him a drunkard, and also that he turned water into wine at a wedding. Or maybe what he drank wasn't alcohol as we know it today?
Anyways I'm just really curious about both, so if anyone wants to enlighten me I'd appreciate it, thanks!
1. Cooking makes the alcoholic content of the wine, etc, evaporate so that the product is non-alcoholic.
2. I am a teetotal Christian. In the Middle East I drank the unfermented juice of the grape. I have no way of knowing what Jesus drank. I will post some passages of scripture that cause confusions for Christians - and - perhaps for others.
Leviticus 10:8-11 8 ¶ And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying,
9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: [it shall be] a statute for ever throughout your generations:
10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;
11 And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses
Numbers 6:1-3 1 ¶ AND the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate [themselves] to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate [themselves] unto the LORD:
3 He shall separate [himself] from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
Deuteronomy 14:26 26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Deuteronomy 29:5-6 5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.
6 Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I [am] the LORD your God.
Judges 13:4 4 Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean [thing]:
Judges 13:7 7 But he said unto me, Behold, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and now drink no wine nor strong drink, neither eat any unclean [thing]: for the child shall be a Nazarite to God from the womb to the day of his death.
1 Samuel 1:15-16 15 And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I [am] a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD.
16 Count not thine handmaid for a daughter of Belial: for out of the abundance of my complaint and grief have I spoken hitherto.
Proverbs 31:4-7 4 [It is] not for kings, O Lemuel, [it is] not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Isaiah 5:11 11 Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, [that] they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, [till] wine inflame them!
Isaiah 5:22-23 22 Woe unto [them that are] mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
Isaiah 24:9 9 They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.
Isaiah 28:7 7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble [in] judgment.
Micah 2:11 11 If a man walking in the spirit and falsehood do lie, [saying], I will prophesy unto thee of wine and of strong drink; he shall even be the prophet of this people.
Luke 1:13-16 13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." (Proverbs 20:1); "Wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps." (Deuteronomy 32:33); "Be not drunk with wine wherein is excess." (Ephesians 5:18).
In the Old Testament 'wine' is translated from the Hebrew yayin which comes from an unused root meaning to effervesce. This is probably related to the fermentation process. The NT word translated as wine comes from the Hebrew root.
Most of the passages I have quoted seem to suggest that the use of fermented beverages, including 'strong' drinks,' is antithetical to righteousness. This is, I believe, suggested from the context. There are other passages in which wine is the customary drink, but it is worth noting that those who separate themselves (sanctification) for a holy purpose abstained from wine and strong drink.
I will suggest that perhaps Jesus drank unfermented wine, but the scriptural record is silent on that matter, so any conclusion is unsafe.
Ethyl alcohol is produced by yeast fermentation in grains and fibers containing sugar. The amount of alcohol in wine and beer is normally less than 10 percent because fermentation stops when the ethyl alcohol concentration reaches this level. In modern times, however, the amount in alcoholic beverages has been increased by distillation.
The availability of beverages with higher concentrations of alcohol has increased the number of social and medical problems associated with ingesting it. Some conditions that are increased among those who use alcohol include cancers of the oral cavity, larynx, and esophagus; cirrhosis of the liver; degenerative diseases of the central nervous system; and higher accidental death rates, both in respect of automobile and pedestrian accidents.
Big News. Jesus drank wine and did all Jews of his day up till now.
I Jesus time there was no way to keep grape juice from turning into wine.
The only time they had grape juice to drink was during harvest time.
The Passover dinner is celebrated with several glasses or cups of wine from a time hundreds of years before Jesus drank it.
Jesus even spoke of putting new wine into old wine skins.
Sour wine in his day is what we call vinegar now.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)
I never heard of that before, Call it me being ignorant maybe, but Jesus drinking grape juice, that is so funny, I fell off my chair and broke an arm. Wine was such an important symbol and tradition in Jesus days.
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