I feel a little bit guilty for posting in here while I am in mourning and observing shiva... but I'm having trouble sleeping again and I guess this is a bit of a distraction for me. If you're curious what I'm talking about, please read my thread under bereavement:

http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/bereavement/tragic-news-22654.html

Anyways, these are 2 simple questions about wine and spirits. I know that some Christians and most Muslims do not drink any alcohol. My first question is, can they cook with alcohol? Because with most recipes, the actual alcohol evaporates during the cooking.

My second question is for Christians who don't drink alcohol. Didn't Jesus drink? I remember reading in the NT that some people called him a drunkard, and also that he turned water into wine at a wedding. Or maybe what he drank wasn't alcohol as we know it today?

Anyways I'm just really curious about both, so if anyone wants to enlighten me I'd appreciate it, thanks!

Starman

If you were so strongly convinced that the bread could be eatened in any form chosen then why feign not to know and ask for an explanation?

BTW
I never said Jesus was not speaking metaphorically. Jesus used the bread as a symbol of his body. The bread used during the Lord's supper was unleavened because unleavened bread was required for the passover and Jesus celebrated the passover as required by the Mosaic Law prior to his instituting the Lord's Supper.


Sorry I caused a misunderstanding. I should have brought out that the decision to view leavened bread as representing sin is also supported by the Hebrew scriptures. Actually, that the unleavened bread represents Jesus' sinlessness a generally accepted.

SYMBOLIC MEANINGS OF EGYPT AND LEAVENING ... of Christ, it seems logical that the unleavened bread eaten during the original Passover also represents purity and sinlessness. Jesus the Bread ... Unleavened bread is always symbolic ...b5w48

Excerpt:

[size="4"]

Christ the Unleavened Bread

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We know from the writings in the New Testament that the unleavened bread to be eaten during the Passover of the gospel age represents Jesus Christ's sinless body as the Passover lamb of God.

Because the unleavened bread of the Passover during the gospel age represents the purity and sinlessness of Christ, it seems logical that the unleavened bread eaten during the original Passover also represents purity and sinlessness....

The eating of the bread and lamb was also prophetic and symbolic of the new Passover ritual in which unleavened bread is eaten as a symbol of the sinless body of Christ (Lk.22:26; 1.Cor.11:23-24).


"You shall therefore sacrifice the Passover to the Lord your God, of the flock of the herd, in the place which the Lord shall choose to place his name. You shall eat no leavened bread with it;" (Deut.16:2-3 KJV).

The Israelites left Egypt (symbolic sin) without leavened bread (symbolic sin)....


The unleavened bread also pointed toward the time when God would make a new agreement with national Israel and the rest of humanity. Under the new agreement, unleavened bread is to be eaten as a reminder that those under this agreement have put away sin and must remain sinless before God the Father and Jesus Christ.

See Rom.6:1-16; 1.Cor.5:6-8; Jn.3:6-10.

By B. L. Cocherell, file b5w48


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BTW
Yes, Jesus was speaking metaphorically by using leaven as a symbol of hypocrisy and false teachings. He could have very well used another symbol but chose leaven as had other writers before him to represent something negative.

"....They are all adulterers as an oven heated by the baker, who ceases from the raising after he has kneaded the dough until it be leavened" (Hos.7:1-4 KJV).


A Christian View of Passover Week
The unleavened bread eaten at Passover signified freedom from sin. It represents Yahshua's (Jesus') sinlessness as well ...
A Christian View of Passover Week

Exodus 11 - 12 -- The Passover Meal
Jeannie Cole's ladies' class lecture describes and explains the Passover meal ... symbolic of the hope of freedom that enabled their ancestors to withstand the bitterness of slavery. Matzah - the unleavened bread ... Jesus is our example of perfection and sinlessness ...
Exodus 11 - 12 -- The Passover Meal

But of course you are entitled to your opinion as well.

Morganite

I know what I believe, but my opinion is not the only one and I am interested in hearing what others have to say about this and many other important subjects. I am sorry you feel it necessary to become irritated.




[SIZE="5"]MRGANITE[/SIZE]

Thank you. You were getting me worried that you were intolerant.

[SIZE="5"]M[/SIZE]

Starman

Sorry about that original statement I made which I erased because I realized too late that it might come across as a bit rude. I try to avoid being rude but sometimes I slip and have to retrace myself. Thank you for your patience and your explanation concerning your motives for posting a question. I too was becoming a bit worried that you were posting merely to set someone up for a strong irrefutable response. But I'm glad to see that it isn't so as you must be of realizing that I am not intolerant of other people's views.

Actually, most people I encounter on the web are intolerant of my views because some of my views are not in the mainstream of what the majority of people considering themselves Christian believe to be irrefutable truth and based on infallible authority. Some even disagree with my views on tolerance of other people's views as I have expressed them here on this forum and prefer to believe that God is as intolerant of others' views as they are. But then again, they too have a right to their intolerance as I have a right to disagree with it.

Morganite

..............................................



M

arcura

Morganite,
I find you post interesting,
But I refer the simple answer as presented in the bible.
It was because of a command of God.
The Hebrews left Egypt so fast that they had to bake the bread before it could rise.
God instructed the Hebrews to have a special Passover celebration each year there after and unleavened bread was a part of that.
As recorded here: Exodus 12: 8. They shall eat the flesh that night, roasted; with unleavened bread and bitter herbs they shall eat it.
That is the reason Jesus used unleavened bread during the Passover meal (Seder)
That I believe is the reason for it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Morganite

Understood Sir, but the question is about Jesus saying beware the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducee;, meaning their doctrine, not their food, because Pharisees and Sadducees did not eat leavened bread at the Pesach feast, so they were not being warned to keep clear of eating what they ate, but of believing the things that they taught that were not true, and of behaving in ways that did not have God's love as their primary motivation.



MRGANITE

arcura

Morganite,
Your point is well made and taken.
Thanks,
Fred (arcura)

Starman

I agree with you that Jesus was not giving any instructions on food when he spoke of the leaven of the Pharisees.

Masiella

There is nothing wrong in drinking wine but drinking it in excess to the point of getting intoxicated is condemned in the Bible. The fact that Jesus turned water into wine when the wine at the wedding feast was depleted shows that wine in itself is fine otherwise Jesus would not have performed that miracle. However the Bible warns about overdrinking as well as overeating or gluttony. The Bible also says a little wine is good for the stomach - so moderation is the key here. Also, when Jesus instituted the last supper with his disciples, Jesus broke unleavened bread and wine (not grape juice) but wine and said the wine symbolized his blood which was to be poured out on behalf of this disciples. So there wine is fine but don't overindulge - that's wrong.

ernestpaquin

Hello, this is Ernest Norman Paquin author of "Find Me, Eve". Here is a quote of mine;
"They say Betrayal is the worst sin, my guess is; if you haven't sinned any worse than that then have you really sinned at all..." The biggest act of Betrayal not yet committed was aggressively said to me by a fellow American, and what this person said to me was ; "he would kill the Son of God if he had a reason..." meaning the first chance he gets. Terrorists haven't even been documented as saying or planning that and they say God is great., plenty of Americans agree with some of their words but not any of their actions. I believe the majority of people in this world which numbers in the Billions would protect God's son as well as our own children would be a great humanitarian concern. I know for certain we will not let anything happen to God's son or even our own. I know one thing for certain and that is; If some foolish, cruel and ignorant people would kill the Son of God the first chance they get then what do you think they are capable of doing to us who won't? I emphasize once again; "There is no Devil, just people who practice wickedness.

I would like to add another quote of mine aimed at those wannabe Christkillers, and that is;
"Vengeance in this world starts to come around the moment you fail to regret what you did..."