I'd love to know why ppl think if your wiccan your going to hell, or that your a sananist. From my experiance (i was brought up christian) christian's look down upon the wiccan and or pagan religion's. Because it's not following ''god's'' will. Thus, were (wiccan's and or pagan's going to hell. It's so very rude to judge someone who believes differently. It's ignorant to also try to preach to them and convert them. Why do ppl do this? I personally hate it and wish i could beat ppl down for it. Make's me crazy. Wicca/pagan ppl do not have anything to do with satanism. There is what is called a left and right hand path. Light per say and dark. Neither path is evil. Satanism in a certain perspective is perfectly fine. It is wrong (to me) when a sanaist kills ppl or animals to sacrifice. But, it started out as a ''selfinvolved'' religion. Meaning that focus was on self other then the world or other's. Wicca and pagan's are the other route. It's all about the world, nature, loving other's and life. Outward. So with all this said, how are ppl so blind and rasist and ignorant to those who are different. I'd love to see a person try to tell me i'm going to hell or that i'm evil. I would simply say, let me tell you what i believe. I worship the goddess-same as god. I am thankful for the world and try to care for it and the inhabitant's of it.

Credendovidis

Of course it is not that bad! It is just a belief, equal to Christianity or any other main religion - with the only exception of the deity involved.
Just as there is no objective supported evidence for the correctness of the Christian claim, none is there for any other main-religion claims, Church of Satan claim, "Church of the Flying Pink Unicorn" claim , Wicca claim , "Church of the Spaghetti Monster claim , etc. etc. etc.

In short there is no objective supported evidence for any religious belief. All a person can do is BELIEVE in the existence and/or in the powers of one or more deities , whomever that deity may be. In other words the belief in any deity is based on lots of hot air, so it does not matter which deity one refers to, be that God, Allah, Hara Krishna, Devil, the Pink Unicorn, the Spaghetti Monster, Wicca deities, etc. : all of them are as far as objective supported evidence is concerned totally imaginairy !

ordinaryguy

You make it sound like that's a BAD thing. What makes "objective supported evidence" so special , and what's so wrong with imagining "realities" that inspire us? If I thought the only useful realities were those that depend on "objective supported evidence", I'd be pissed.

Credendovidis

It seems that you drew some negative conclusions and suggest now that that is my position. I wonder why you do that ...

As long as people REALLY understand that all religion and religious thinking is based on BELIEF and not on OBJECTIVE SUPPORTED REALITY, I see no problem with specific religious views.
But the intolerance shown by so many theists - here and elsewhere - for believers with different views and/or for those rejecting such views show that many theists have lost this understanding of reality and/or the link with reality, and have convinced themselves that what they believe equals reality for them.

So seen this way your "what's wrong with imagining realitites that inspire us" indeed shows that losing that firm grip on understanding the difference between reality and imagining realities is a big and important one.

Understanding what is "objective supported evidence" is important to all of us, and understanding the difference between real "objective supported evidence" and "imagining *realities* that inspire us" is just as important.

Thank you for allowing me to point that out even clearer than I did before !

ordinaryguy

I just like to rattle the cage of hyper-rationality/objectivity that you've placed around yourself.

I guess I don't see the distinction that you draw between BELIEF and OBJECTIVE SUPPORTED REALITY being as clear and unambiguous as you do.
In my experience, theists are neither more nor less likely to be intolerant than atheists. It's a significant minority in both camps. Being a mystic, rather than a theist, atheist, or agnostic, I have encountered intolerance from all three, though far less often from agnostics.
You are free to choose and live within a "reality" that includes only what you can observe directly and explain logically. But your choice in that regard is no more binding on others than their *imagined realities* are on you.

Your insistence that any BELIEF that goes beyond OBJECTIVITY is an inferior version of reality (or worse, a dangerous delusion) is your own value judgment, nothing more. It is legitimate and binding on you, and those who agree with you, no one else.
You're welcome, although it wasn't a lack of clarity in your statements that prompted my response. I disagree with the fundamentals of your position, not your statement of it.

Credendovidis

You're free to believe whatever you like but religious beliefs of whatever sort are so far based on a lot of hot air, and nothing else, as - even after thousands of years - religion has never been able to support any of it's wild dogmatic claims objectively.

As to rationality : people supporting that view are at least trying (and are actually doing quite well in doing so) to support their findings on an objective supported evidence basis.

That does not make such views better than religious views in some moral or ethical way, but surely make them more valuable in a practical, pragmatic, scientific, and realistic way.

I always say : believe whatever you like to believe, as long as you realize that you believe that !