What is god??There is always this clash between science & god.Can God be a huge amount of energy??

workerbee

I already read that CMM. I think that you know that prayer does not work, everyone does but they are afraid to admit it. Example: 1 out of 10 females survive brain cancer. if these females all prayer one will survive. People will say it is a miracle, she will go on T.V and so on but the other 9 you don't hear from because they are dead. People ignore that part.
The person that survives is because medical treatment nothing more. the belief God may help relieve stress or depression but that is all. I just saw a TV show on PBS only caught the last few minutes of it. It was on religion, there was a priest a few college professors, etc. Someone in the audience asked "Does prayer work" a professor answered much the same as i did where God helps with relieving of stress, depresion but NOT with the medical problem.Here is the amazing part, the priest nodded in agreement. He was agreeing that prayer only does that. The new study was made to overcome flaws in earlier studies that had vague results.


Good point
workerbee

kennith_morden

THE TOP TEN PREDICTIONS FOR 2008
>
> 1. The Bible will still have all the answers.
> 2. Prayer will still work.
> 3. The Holy Spirit will still move.
> 4. God will still inhabit the praises of His people.
> 5. There will still be God-anointed preaching.
> 6. There will still be singing of praise to God.
> 7. God will still pour out blessings upon His people.
> 8. There will still be room at the Cross.
> 9. Jesus will still love you.
> 10. Jesus will still save the lost.
>
> God whispers in your soul and speaks to your mind. Sometimes when you
> don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick at you.
>

inthebox

http://cbfinch.googlepages.com/PrayerStudy.pdf

regarding the JAMA article P 941

"our findings are not consistent with prior studies SHOWING THAT INTERCESSORY PRAYERS HAD A BENEFICIAL EFFECT ON THE OUTCOMES IN CARDIAC PATIENTS."

They referenced those studies if you want to quote them.


Scientifically speaking the study you mention is clearly not settled science.
It only applies to this specific situation, this particular trial. How about for depression or pregnancy or pneumonia? So stating that prayer does not help, as a blanket statement is a false statement.

HOw about a study with those who were religious. Divide that group into those allowed to pray and those not allowed to pray. This, of course would not be posible because that would not be right.

Another problem with the study you mentioned is that they did not control for those who prayed for themselves - see the table on patient characteristics.
Theologically speaking, a direct prayer would probably be more effective than an intercessory one.

Also no one would think that prayer would replace a bypass, it is meant as a complimentary treatment.



As to the OP's question

Science is the testing of observed phenomenon. It is impartial.
Science does not explain why we are here, what our purpose or meaning is.

To the religious, God does, God is so much more than just science.

One can appreciate DNA - its complexity, its abilty to hold information. That is fact.
There is no scientific evidence how this originated by random chance. Evolutionists may theorize or hypothesize, those who believe say its from God. Same fact different points of view.

workerbee

that's the point is it not. Prayer should work to replace a bypass but does not. Or sure it will help people who believe that God exists with depression and there emotinal outlook but not with the actual probelm Let me give another example of how worthless prayer is. Mother Terasa, died frustrated. Know why because God was silent when she prayed. he did not answer her. this was mentioned in her letters. No one was hepled that she prayed for. She was writing these letters to her priest friend for 50 years. What happens is that some poeple (Christians)get into a make believe worldscared to death of admitting what i know. Never underestimate the power of Denial.
Kinnith, I don't mean to insult you but you sound like a child. You go ahead and believe in your delusion, does not matter to me

workerbee

inthebox

You mis represent.

"prayer should work to replace bypass but does not"


exactly who made that claim?


Now you admit that faith helps depression, so

Depression as a predictor for coronary heart disea...[Am J Prev Med. 2002] - PubMed Result

Spiritual Well-Being and Depression in Patients with Heart Failure

but even this article in the discussion

"A related concern is that psychological well-being and spiritual well-being are overlapping constructs."

This issues shows that, contrary to what you might claim, science and religion may indeed come together.



As to those that have questions or doubts about their faith, who does not, especially during hard times. Faith does not mean life is going to be easy.
We are taught to seek wisdom, and thru trials faith deepens and matures [ Jamees 1 ], or it does not.

Now if Mother Theresa was an evolutionists, would she even question why there is suffering? Would she even try to help - what natural selective advantage is it to her to help the poor?

And yes prayers help but "faith without action is dead" - so she did help those who were suffering.


Is it not the claim by SOME atheists that religious folks are not as smart, don't question, and blindly accept what is taught religious texts?

So lo and behold a person of faith has some doubts and questions.

You have to wonder about someone who DOES NOT ask questions about what they believe.

NeedKarma

Where is the OP to keep this back on track i.e. Science and Astronomy?

workerbee

First off, iagree with NeedKarma, we should not get into this here. i only wanted to answer Cho's question. I just skimmed the links but they seem to say what i say about well being
so what? here is waht i think prayer should do. In the new testament jesus broke laws of nature by raising the dead, and walking on water(which he did not do) people that were blind could see immediately, so I think my view of prayer is correct. You say faith without action is dead. I think you just need action, forget the faith, prayer , they are both
worthless. I also notice how many Christians alter their views on praying. Now it seems if you have a problem pray to feel better about the problem you have and that's it the problem still stays. I don't understand that thinking. If you want ot continue this you can PM me

workerbee

inthebox

workerbee:

The op mentions God and science. So this is on track.

Is it really legitimate for a stated non-beliver, to make comments on what prayer or faith or action / works play in the role of Christianity?
That is disingenuous.

Christian theology is difficult at times. Study the book of Romans if you must start somewhere. CS Lewis' "Mere Christianity" is another good place to start or Oswald Chambers' daily devotionals is another. Oswald Chambers: My Utmost for His Highest

Also, as I have stated, there is no conflict between God and science, the extremists on both sides would like people to think there is.


Yours truly is a Christian and a health professional. Both God and science are involved in my work.

Cho

This discussion is running of the track.I just wanted to know God scientifically.This discussion finally ended in "Does prayer works or not".I do believe prayer works.What matters is wat u r praying 4 & 2 whom u r praying.4 me prayer always worked.Besides everybody seems 2 be a christian & no 1's thinking beyond that.Jesus is not the only God.He is not the only 1 u can pray 2.

Anyway this was not my topic.I just want 2 kno the scientific explanations of God.Or will science ever be able 2 explain God??

Birabhadra Mahakud

Physics is just a part of the Metaphysics.Physics cannot describe the whole of metaphysics. By examining Special Theory of relativity one comes to know that infinte energy is required to stop time and exit from this physical world while still existing in its own frame. Furher no maths or physics can describe it--This is the limit of Logic. In the beginning of the universe too, space and time were zero and infinite. My calculations on the relativistic schwarzschild metric shows that it was also like the case mentioned above. I am Damn sure that the BigBang required infinte amount of energy, which is beyond the human capability and reasoning. INFINITY is the only attribute of GOD.