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I've seen your many questions lately, and recognize that they're not really questions, but comments designed to generate discussion...
You ask "Is Jesus the son of God or is Jesus God? What does the Bible say?"
It's easy to look up what the Bible says, but since Jesus was here about 300 years before the Bible, aren't there other sources to answer the question?
The Bible is the only reliable source I have on that question and it clearly says that Jesus in God the Son of God.
He is the anointed Word of God in whom all things were created, the Messiah, the Christ. See the first few verses of the gospel of John.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)
But gosh, what did the Christians of the first 3 centuries rely on I wonder?
I'm not sure what your point is here. Is it your belief that the early Christian congregations did not have access to the scriptures?
They certainly had the Hebrew scriptures, or the "Old Testament", in the form of the LXX (Septuagint.) Those are the scriptures Jesus used and quoted. The Christian Greek scriptures, or "New Testament", were distributed to the congregations in their original form as copies of the letters and writings of the apostles and disciples. There is evidence of such copies dated as early as the 1st century CE--within decades of the writing of the originals. Remarkably fast distribution for that day and age!
Perhaps you mean they didn't have the full body of scriptures in one convenient source as we do in the Bibles we use today?
OK, I'll confess. I was posting "in kind" to the many recent posts of Hope12 - which I saw as not really questions, but rhetoric.
Christ, rather than writing a book, founded a Church. This Church decided which of the many writings that were circulating amongst the churches were certainly Divinely inspired; and called these Scripture.
His Church did, and does today, affirm that Scripture is full of Truth and without error, however the claim that it is the only authority is not supported by Christ or His Church.
In fact, there are more exhortations to seek the guidance of The Church and it's leaders in the Bible than there are to Scripture itself.
In fact, there are more exhortations to seek the guidance of The Church and it's leaders in the Bible than there are to Scripture itself.
I'd be interested to see what scriptural support you have for this statement. I can't help but recall how many times Jesus himself referred people (and even Satan) to the scriptures saying "It is written..." or "Is it not written...?"
It is true that the authority of the congregations, or The Church as you say, is vital but surely you do not mean to imply that such authority exceeds the scriptures? That cannot be. If a Church teaching conflicts with the scriptures, the scriptures are the final authority. (John 17:17; Acts 5:29)
First of all, let me interject. May the True Peace and Joy of Christ be with all sincere Christians. Amen.
OK, so I shouldn't have said what you quoted since I'm not willing to count them.
...and even if I were right, it wouldn't make my point very well anyway...so I'll jump ahead to my real point.
As you've probably figured by now, I am speaking of Sola Scriptura, which is simply not even hinted at in Scripture.
If the Bible were the sole authority, then somewhere within it we should find that it is so.
But we do not.
I don't remember my Logic101 very well, but wouldn't this be thesis be considered as either false or illogical?
Further, Christ's words do not apply here. When He was speaking of Scripture, he was speaking of extant Scripture. And to boot, even He did not say it was the sole authority even then.
Yes, I know it is an argument that's been debated for several centuries, but nonetheless I get an itchin' to get in on it every once in awhile...
Yes, I know it is an argument that's been debated for several centuries, but nonetheless I get an itchin' to get in on it every once in awhile...
Hey, I'd like to "get in on it" too. Let's not let a few centuries get in the way!
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If the Bible were the sole authority, then somewhere within it we should find that it is so...But we do not.
Do you mean the Bible itself making the claim to being the sole authority? If so, consider these NT passages:
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. -- 2 Timothy 3:16-17
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. -- Revelation 22:18-19
Paul's letter points out that the scriptures make one "complete" to carry out "every" good work. And Jesus' words in Revelation emphasize how seriously God views the authority of the scriptures. Nothing can be added or taken away from them. I think together these two passages make a very strong argument for Sola Scriptura.
And consider Jesus' warning to the Pharisees about giving traditional teachings more emphasis than God's word:
For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men--the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do." He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition...making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do." -- Mark 7:8,9,13
I have to agree with Jesus' view of scriptural authority.
Now, this is not to say that God doesn't reveal the meaning of scripture--especially prophecy--to his servants at a later date (see Dan 12:8-9; Habakkuk 2:2-3; 1 Corinthians 13:9-12), but I know of nothing that would suggest that such revelation is based on anything other than the scripture.
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Further, Christ's words do not apply here. When He was speaking of Scripture, he was speaking of extant Scripture.
But if God were to inspire more scripture--as he eventually did--surely we would follow Jesus' example and give it the same respect. After all, they are the work of the same Author.
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And to boot, even He did not say it was the sole authority even then.
Can you provide scriptures on this point? I'd be interested to learn the source of this teaching.
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