Why should people believe that all religious understanding is relative and that no one interpretation is absolute?

HANK

keenu

Well, I believe that everything is relative to the individual and that nothing is absolute. Very simple statements that most people cannot quite grasp, intellectually nor spiritually. We each create our own reality and all is relative to the belief system of each individual. I appreciate intelligent feedback and discourse, it is a cool breeze infrequently experienced.

keenu

Hi, Fred, fellow Answerway expert!
ALL is choice. I choose not to believe in a god and that is my choice.
You say prayer is the most powerful force in the universe...
this does NOT necessitate a belief in a god. One doesn't have to pray to a god for their positive thoughts to help others.

Daniel Herring

Wouldn't it be funny, if you got all the way to Heaven only to discover that God's first name is Murphy?

If you ask circular questions, then stop for a moment, does your world still spin?

I don't need to tell you that the questions you ask need not be re-answered.

HANK

Appreciation lies at the core of the notion in our language of 'respect.' Invoking the notion of 'respect' is sometimes easier to do than either acting on it in concrete situations or UNDERSTANDING its ethical and social implications.

HANK

HANK

What would be even funnier would be to reach Heaven and find out there IS a God! I haven't a doubt!

HANK

chrisl

May I ask why you say there is no God? Have you taken a serious look at the Bible? Do not judge the Bible on the basis of those who profess to respect it but who expose their hyprocrisy through their actions!

I also think that a common sense look at the world shows that there is no logical explanation other than the existence of a powerful, loving and wise Creator. I think it requires more faith to believe it all happened by chance than to accept the existence of a Creator.

I cannot understand how anyone can believe that the human eye developed by chance over time...

psi42

I usually don't weigh in on these kind of discussions, but the recent nonsense in Topeka has whetted my interest in such things...

But evolution by natural selection is _not_ "random chance." It is not a succession of random mutations, but the cumulative effect of those mutations in relation to the environment, that is important in the long run.

If a change is advantageous enough to allow a population to survive better in an environment than another population, then it will most likely be preserved.
If a change is disadvantageous, it will most likely not be preserved.



Here's some questions for you:

If your god does exist, why would he create the human eye as it exists today? The eye has many flaws. It can be easily damaged by mishap, high-intensity high-frequency light, lack of moisture, or malicious intent from another person. It can only detect a narrow portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. It is inefficient. If your god does exist, and Created everything to Glorify Himself, then why would he create something so obviously imperfect?

Why do we need to eat or drink? This is imperfect, and requires the death of other organisms to fuel our bodies. If your god is omnipotent, surely he could create humans so as to be completely self-sufficient. Why would your god create something so obvioulsy imperfect?

Why do we have sex? Seriously. Your god (or at least your Bible, which is another issue altogether), seems to prefer chastity in most cases, so I hardly think he created sex merely for pleasure. He also seems to prefer monogomy, so I don't think he would have created sex as the most efficient means of reproduction.
The need for sex places several barriers in the way of procreation. Why would your god create something so obviously imperfect?


Why your Bible? How can you place so much weight on a book that has been translated and edited so many times you cannot even accurately state who its (human) writers were?

Why your god? Why not some other god? There have been many gods in human history, why should your god be any more real than them? If your religion is right, all others _must_ logically be wrong, correct?

I think HANK's intent in creating this thread was to ask how we can reconcile the social need for repect and understanding with this statement. It's sad this thread has wandered so far off course.

chrisl

I'm not looking to argue, just discuss. I used to think like you do until I took an open-minded look at the Bible. Like I said, don't judge the Bible by the teachings of people like Jerry Falwell or Creflo A. Dollar! Or Pope Benedict 16.0, for that matter.

But don't the mutations happen at random, with no intelligent direction? My point is, how likely is it that a series of random mutations would cumulatively produce the human eye? Or any other complex system? That takes a lot of faith to accept, IMHO. Especially when there is precious little physical evidence to support it. Where is the broad spectrum of intermediate organisms? The fossil record should be THICK with such links, but it is not. It is a rare and special occasion when someone claims to find a jawbone that might be a new human "ancestor."

The big question is, how is a partly-formed eye "advantageous" and worth keeping? Did some poor species of beast have a half-formed cornea hanging off their face? Would it not be a disadvantage, prone to infection and injury? And then eons later, by chance, the next mutation developed the optic nerve, which then had to wait until...Well, you get the idea. To me it is obvious that all of human experience and common sense argues against this. Science can theorize all they want but it doesn't overcome common sense.

And how often has yesterday's scientific fact become today's discredited theory?

Come on now, that's a bit extreme, isn't it? The eye is a miracle! To say the eye is inefficient is, I think, uninformed. Ask an optometrist if he would agree with your opinion. The eye is mind-bogglingly complex and man has yet to make a visual device that even comes close to it.

I say that the eye is a marvelous gift from a loving Creator.

Still, the Bible teaches that we are currently imperfect and the eye surely reflects that. But God has promised that mankind (and their eyes) will eventually be returned to perfection.

It is another example of our Creator's loving kindness that we can enjoy food. Sure, we could have been sustained by some other means, but do you really argue that life would be better without the joy of eating?

On what basis do you profess to know what is perfect and what is not? Are your standards of perfection what everyone should accept? We are imperfect beings--for now--and we do well to recognize and accept our limitations.

The Bible teaches that God provided sexual relations as a privilege of marriage. And yes, the Bible teaches that it is meant to be pleasurable. It also serves as a means to populate the earth. But the Bible teaches us to be responsible and the prohibitions on fornication are a protection. Consider all the heartache, broken families and even death that result from disregarding those guidelines. They are a loving protection to mankind, much like a father teaching a child the proper use of matches or a knife.

Again, what is the basis for this claim? Do you know what would be the most efficient means? And why does it need to be efficient in the first place? Efficiency is not the overriding consideration in all things. Unless you believe in evolution, I guess. Maybe that's where you get that mindset...

Anyway, your whole argument seems to be that God doesn't do things the way you think they should be done. That's not a strong basis for argument.

Because the Bible stands on its own as a unique book that contains overwhelming evidence that it is divinely inspired. Have you really looked at it with an open-mind? Or do you approach it with all the baggage of those who oppose it? Or even worse, those who claim to follow it but who distort its meanings? The Bible does not contradict proved science. I think the worst anyone can say is that it contradicts many theories. But in the past when science claimed that the Bible was wrong, the Bible's record of vindication is perfect. Did you know the Bible stated the earth was round centuries before mankind accepted it? (Isaiah 40:22) Or that the water cycle is described? (Isaiah 55:10) The Bible is not a science textbook, but it reveals astounding knowledge and understanding of the natural world far in advance of science. It is little things like this, added with unerring prophecy, that convinces me the Bible is authentic. Even Isaac Newton said he found more evidence of truth in the Bible than in any other work. If he thought it was accurate and worth a look, why don't you?

In short, because my God--Jehovah--is the author of the Bible, and the Bible is reliable. I have come to understand the Bible and learned about Him from it. The Bible says there are other gods, but only one true God. He is the one I worship because he is the one who made me and everything I see.

Regarding, the religions of mankind, what fruitage do you see in all of them that make you think they are all acceptable to God? You claim to be a logical person. What has been the fruitage of the followers of the world's religions? Do we have peace, or security? Surely you can't argue that all of mankind's religions are correct? Some have to be wrong. How do you tell? The Bible says to look at their fruitage, or the behavior of their adherents. That tells the whole story. Or at least, it did for me.

Chris

NeedKarma

See that's the part I have a problem with. I have seen good and bad people of all religions. I have seen road rage by a guy with a Jesus fish on his car and I have seen extremely nice and sweet Islamic types. People are individuals not Catholics or Jews or Mormons.

chrisl

Well, there are always going to be problems so long as we are imperfect. Even those genuinely trying to obey the Bible fail sometimes. But is it a practice (ie, their way of life) or is it a momentary failing? It's important to differentiate. The Bible teaches that even the faithful apostles had failings, misunderstandings and the usual human foibles--but they overcame them and stayed faithful rather than succumbed to them.

But if such unscriptural behavior is a way of life, then their fruitage is condemning them.

Remember that God does not expect literal perfection from imperfect mankind. That would be impossible. Psalm 103:14 reminds us:

For He knows our frame; He remembers that we are dust. (NKJV)

He expects relative perfection, in the same way we might say that the new paint job on our car is "perfect." Of course if you get out a magnifying glass you will find blemished and imperfections, but everyone knows what was meant.

Chris