What is the name of your God?

Starman

It is ironic that the very people who were given God's name and repeatedly commanded to show that name respect by glorifying it and proclaiming it should eventually be the very ones who went in the completely opposite direction by striving to make it unknown. There is NOTHING in the Hebrew scriptures that justifies turning a deaf ear to those clear instructions.

orange

True enough, but it's important to realize that, Judaism is not so much a religion as it is the religious tradition of the Jewish people. Therefore, oral traditions handed down through the generations are sometimes considered just as important as commandments written in the Torah. In this case, the prohibition against speaking the Name of G-d was in effect for generations before the Torah was even written down. It's thought to come from ancient people's beliefs that with speaking a sacred Name comes power. In fact it's actually said that G-d simply spoke His Name and the world came into being (even though that's not mentioned in scripture).

Again, while this is true, it's important also to realize that Judaism has never been a sola scriptura religion. That is to say, the beliefs and practices of the Jews have never been based solely on the Torah (Bible). Tradition also plays a part, as does the Talmud, which is the Rabbis and Sages interpretations of the Torah, written during the Babylonian exile.

Starman

I am aware of the ideas and traditions which led Israel to conclude that the glorification of God's name should be ignored. Of course those who believe the Bible to be mere ideas of men might see this shunting aside of scripture as of little importance. But for those who consider the Bible the word of God, human customs, traditions, and superstitions you mention should have never taken precedence over God's clear instructions. Jesus, whom we Christians consider the Messiah, spoke against placing such traditions above God's word. That's one reason why he was disliked by the religious leaders of his day.





I disagree that there never was a time when Israel felt obligated to live by the law, both moral and ceremonial. The book of Exodus clearly tells us that when given the law the at Sinai they all agreed to abide it and suffer the consequences if they didn't. In the books of Chronicles and Kings as well as in the minor and major prophets we are provided with numerous examples of how God punished the nation whenever it deviated from its agreement or covenant with God. So this deviation from law which you say is OK because of human tradition was never seen that way by the judges which succeeded Moses, nor by the faithful kings of Israel, nor by the prophets who repeatedly exhorted the people to pay strict attention to what God had commanded them to do. True, the nation deviated, but it was constantly exhorted to keep to its covenant and warned that apostasy would bring disaster as when the Assyrians invaded the northern ten-tribe Kingdom and the Babylonians the Two tribe Kingdom and the people taken into exile.

In short, if God considered it as lightly as you do, then he would have simply not reacted to their deviations. But the scriptures show a completely different picture than the one you describe.

BTW
It was during association with pagan nations during exiles that many non-Mosaic-Law ideas were introduced.

milliec

HI!
I mostly agree with Starman, with some additional elaborations:
The changes introduced were meant to update biblical laws to the time these changes were introduced. Not to change the basic SPIRIT, or CONCEPT of Judaism.
Like, for example, divorce doesn't exist in the Torah, or stoning a person for certain reasons as was mentioned in the Torah - can you imagine it happening today?
We learnt parts of the talmud in high school - and these are actually books of laws, different aspects of everyday life, not everything was elaborated in the Torah up to its very minute aspect.
In the bible, there are also laws which wouldn't be accepted today, like women not being allowed to testify in trials!
There were times our scholars made the adjustments necessary to everyday life, but , unfortunately this has stopped, and so, in many aspects, the Jewish religious law is not compatible with life these days .
As for God's name, as I have previously mentioned, the full name of God is an unique word in Hebrew which is derived from the root of the verb to be, but is past, present and future all in one, and implies the eternity if god, as well as the creation, since everything exists due to God's will when expressed by God: "Let there be...."
A t lest, that's what we were thought in high school here....
Bye,
(and Shabath Shalom!)
Millie

orange

Thanks guys for your responses! It's all very interesting, but it's become pretty apparent to me that I am in way over my head. I don't seem to know enough about the subject to have a decent discussion.

Millie, if you don't mind me asking, what denomination of Judaism do you belong to? A lot of what you say makes sense to me, but it's very different from what my husband and his family says.

Shabbat Shalom to you to!

milliec

Hi Dear!
As you know, I live in Israel. I'm a secular Jew. At this moment, we're still the majority of Jews here.
Since we live in the Jewish state, the Jewish religion and tradition are observed here, to different degrees,by most of the Jewish population.
In schools we all learn the Bible, and when I was in high school, parts of the Talmud as well (which I quite enjoyed) .
We generally keep the tradition at home:Rosh Hashana, Om Kippur, Pesah, etc.
We drive on Saturdays. I was born in Bucharest a, Romania and came to Israel when I was 12 y. old (AGES AGO!)
My mother was raised in a "modern"-traditional family, which might be like Bney Akiva today.
My father grew up in an Orthodox family, he even went to a "Heder" when he was little.
In his teens, he rebelled and went to Hashomer Hatzair.
My husband grew was born here, he grew up in a Sefardic traditional family - like Bney Akiva - his father was a Hazan.
I be glad to answer any questions you might still have, tough I think the other participants might find it boring.
Bye,
Millie

talaniman

On the contrary Millie,I find the religious discussion engaged here absolutely fascinating and that members of the same religion have grown in different directions with their own identities so to speak. As I can strictly follow no set belief,the fact that a multiple of beliefs can be discussed with no malice or name calling or no presumption of judgement is refreshing to this forum, and hope that others who follow different beliefs weigh in as well.

jduke44

Actually, Millie, I find it interesting bc I wasn't aware there were so many differnet denominations so to speak as there is with Christians. I may not understand stand it all but I am finding I am learning a little this. Especially, coming from both Ornages andyour points of views.

orange

Thanks Millie! Ah that explains the differences then, you being secular. I've been secular too, all of my life. The difference with me is though, not being in Israel, I never learned anything in school; I am learning now. My husband and I are both agnostics actually, but he was raised Modern Orthodox, and still believes the teachings although he doesn't keep many of the laws lol. His parents have since gravitated towards the Lubavitch. Actually his sister and her family, and his brother are all Lubavitch as well. We never went to synagogue until we adopted our niece and nephew, and we are taking them to shul because they are saying kaddish for theie parents. Although the children's parents were not religious either, their grandparents were quite influential in the children's lives, as far as religious beliefs go. So it's a bit difficult, as the kids are used to a lot of the Lubavitch practices. I've had to make a few compromises for them since they've been here.

It is very interesting, and I will continue asking questions whether the other members think it's boring or not LOL!! But as you can see, there are already two here besides me who don't.

Yup jduke there are actually many different Jewish denominations, probably not as many as within Christianity, but there are a few. The major ones are Reform, Reconstructionist, Conservative, and Orthodox. There are also a couple of other groups I've heard of, the Traditionalists and the Jewish Renewal. Then of course there's secular Jews, and Jews who are agnostics and atheists (my grandmother was a Jewish communist lol). Among the Orthodox, there are the Modern Orthodox, and the various groups of Hasidic Jews. The Lubavitch, who I mentioned earlier, are Hasidic Jews, but they are different from some of the other Hasidic groups in that they associate with other Jews and prostelize (spelling?). Whereas most Hasidic groups (Bobovers, Satmars, etc) are quite insular and don't have much to do with other Jews.

milliec

Thanks!
I'll elaborate as far as you would like to.
In any case, I consider myself as a person who believes in a higher Something. I don't , personally , like the whole religions business. In my opinion, religions are sort of political- religious parties.
I fully believe that the role of religions is mainly to help us maintain a moral conduct, of mutual respect, a way of living which will enable all of us to coexist.
The fast that we observe Jewish traditions, to a certain degree ( which will never be considered enough by orthodox Jews), is only due to the fact that we were born Jews and we live in a Jewish state.
Bye,
Mille