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One of significant shortfalls of the "Great book religions" (IMHO) is their insistence on the inequality of the sexes. Even for those few varieties of western Protestantism that allow women to be priests and bishops, inequality is still fixed into the foundations of the theology. The myths of creation and the 'Fall of Man' are designed to put women in an unequal and very bad light. Weak, inherently sinful, or at best unable to help themselves. The legacy of the Jewish and Christian religions, is to fill social contracts from marriage ceremonies to civil law, with suggestion that women are unequal and wives are tantamount to property of their husbands. You don't have to look very hard at Islam to see the low status given women, including polygyny, "honor rape" and sexuality of young girls (age of consent in Islamic law is 9!). To say nothing of the "50 virgins a night" promise for religious martyrdom. Polygyny is or was OK with Mormons, but polyandry is/was not. How do Jewish, Islamic or Christian parents explain to their daughters that in the "eyes of God" they are just not as worthy as their brothers?
It seems that the more fundamental a sect's interpretation of their faith, the lower the status of women and the poorer their treatment. A woman's best ways to secure equal status is through education and control of family size. Both of which are always opposed by the more conservative, fundamentalist sects.
To put it bluntly, why is a penis required for a person to bless a baby, witness a marriage, interpret the scriptures, give wise counsel or turn bread and wine into Christ's body and blood? I don't understand why women and non-chauvinistic men would embrace such faiths and accept this second class status.
I am not looking for the circular logic of rote quotes. I'm much more interested in what you think about this issue.
Just to clarify
I am a catholic / christian and i dont feel nonethless less important or equal as any man in my family.
Me as a catholic i was always brought up as an equal no matter to the gender.
Most catholic's feel the same as me. We are much more broad minded and im sure the jewish are too.
wives being tantamount to property of their husbands thats not really true!!! Im no object... property of my husband.. Im his, yes, and he is mone... we chose that.
Its the Islam that's like that, like you explained.
Most catholic's feel the same as me. We are much more broad minded and im sure the jewish are too.
I agree with Krs. I'm female, Jewish, and also went to a Catholic girls boarding school for 4 years. I believe that most modern Catholics and Jews consider women as equals. I don't want to speak too much for Catholics as I'm not one haha, but at Catholic school, the nuns taught that we as young women could do whatever we wanted with our lives. Many were also in favour of women becoming priests, and although that has not happened yet, I think it may happen eventually.
There are very traditional Jews who have strict gender differences, but these differences apply to the men as much as they do to the women. For example, the men have many more commandments / religious obligations to fulfill than the women do. Orthodox Jewish women often work outside the home as well. While I'm not an Orthodox Jew, my in-laws are Orthodox and I can tell you that the women pretty much run the show, and make all the decisions. The men are just along for the ride basically.
I think treating women as less than men is a pervasive problem in all cultures and religions, not just the ones based on the Torah, Bible, and Koran... for example among Tibetan buddhists, the female nuns are treated with much less respect than their male monk counterparts. I have a friend who is a dedicated pagan, and she says that even within paganism there are problems with certain men wanting to take charge. I have another friend who worked in India for 2 years, and as a rule, the women were treated as lesser than the men. In many cases, even among the higher classes it is still considered all right to beat your wife. My friend actually worked with a female doctor at a clinic who thought it was perfectly okay for her husband to hit her.
I agree with you VBNomad that we still have a long way to go as far as women's rights in western religion are concerned, but not all women feel oppressed. I certainly don't. In my synagogue, women are called to the Torah, have Bat Mitzvahs, and can become Rabbis, etc. We are egalitarian.
Hi VB, you know how it is the only way for some men to keep control over a a female is thru intimidation ,fear, and ignorance. The times may change but the method is the same. I follow no religion but many of their ways give power to the man and keep a woman behind him, in my opinion. Keeping women in their place is the only way that some men can say they are the head of the house/society. It may have been necessary for the male to dominate in the past but now we all know that females are just as capable as men in today's world, some are far superior so change is coming albeit slowly.
In Christianity ( I can not speak for Islam, Judism, Buddism or others)
Women have a very high status, and very important roles. Men and women are not the same, women have differnet size organs, different in emotions and all sorts of differences, Men like wise are differnet from women. but when teamed up together the weakness of each are supported by strenghts of the others. They were made to work as a team.
And with Christs words, to love your wife as Christ loved the church, can not give them any higher esteem than one can get.
But they are different and in religion, no they are not equal, Each have roles and duties they were created for.
Equal rights is not a christian teaching no matter how much one wants to make it, we are told to be happy in our state or life we are in, and Christianity was a spiritual role in our life, not political, and not in the working world.
Women held positions of a deacon in the early church. And sorry but just because the world today beleives it should be, God has seat up his laws and the way he wants it. When man loves his wife properly and the wife loves her wife property, each work with full respect of the other.
And just because men and women have different roles, does not make one less than the other, it is only less when people are not happy and do not accept God's will for thier life. When Christ is accepted fully in your life and you try to live in Gods will you find that it is only the sin in our world that makes people jealous of others, but we find that living in that true love of Christ we are happy in the roles God though Christ has given to each of us.
Which comes first? Culture or religion. Which influences the other more? As western culture advances on many levels and paths, it would appear that western religion has lagged behind. We see mainstream religions in crisis (not enough vocations and not able to change to attract more - for instance), and a rise of alternative beliefs. The mainstream sticks to it's doctrine that it is God's plan that women be unequal, yet we modern people know that's just not so. And that paradox brings into question much else of what they say is "God's will". Or at least their ability (infallible they say) to interpret it.
Exactly, and when women were accepted as little more than property, their place in a culture and the religions that serve that culture would be at least as bad. But as they take their proper place as equals in our culture, sooner or later the religions of our culture will have to catch up. And as a priest of Wicca, I'm proud to say my religion is already there; in practice and dogma.
In what way can a celibate male priest be of use when the issue is sex, fidelity, menopause, pre or post natal depression, Childbirth, child death? They are grasping in the dark. And not surprisingly digging in their heels as well. These are things that were not an issue of any sort to the religions of the male dominated religions of the last several millennia. But today these are real issues in most women's lives. Religions must evolve or else. When they stop meeting the need of their culture they are abandoned. I'm not saying male priests are totally useless. But when they start out with a stated bias that women are not equal, then find scripture to justify that bias, can you really take their concern, or advice seriously?
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