What do the LDS's mean when they say that the biblical God was once a man who was exhalted and given his own universe? According to them--who gave the biblical God that universe and who exhaltwed him. Another god?

magprob

That God the Father was the first man, Adam, and the husband of Mary. He was begotten on a previous heavenly world by his Father. The God of Mormonism was once a helpless, burping baby-born to Mormon parents who brought him up to "live worthy of the Gospels" and to obey all the mandates that Mormon Gospel proposes. At the age of eight, the child God supossedly had to undergo baptism by immersion for the remission of His sins, imposition of hands for the reception of the Holy Ghost and confirmation of His church mambership. All of this supposedly placed Him in the Kingdom of His God. By twelve, He was ordained as a deacon and later, allowed to learn Mormon priesthood secrets that are really a big secret because the gentiles can't handle it!
Also, that Jesus and Lucifer were blood brothers. Satan could have been the Savior if his plan of salvation had surpassed that of Jesus.

Starman

God was Adam? Adam was the husband of Mary? Do they mean Mary the mother of Jesus? According to Genesis Adam died before he reached the age of 1000 and the only wife mentioned is Eve. is this an idea they derrived from John Smith?

The two LDS's who are currently visiting me say they accept the Bible account.
But I really don't see how Adam being God can be reconciled with Genesis.
Do they reject the Genesis account?

Also, of all these supposed worlds, universes and Gods, whom do they believe is the original?

Thanx for your response.

Fr_Chuck

I would ask that if you are quoting can you provide book and chapter of the Book of Mormon this is comming out of ( or bible )

I read simular things on the anti mormom sites as teachings or writings of church leaders, but could not find a direct reference to the BOM or bible

Were you a previouw LDS magprob ( I will delete this if you were not but I thought I remember you saying you were in some old post, of course I get confused.

magprob

You will have to buy some books. The Mormons always tell new converts that they follow the bibles account. If that is so, then why the book of Mormon?
Here are my sources:
Joseph Smith, Pearl of Great Price, Writings of Joseph Smith, 2:19
Orson Pratt, The Seer, pg 132
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol 7, pg. 333
Pratt, The Seer, pg. 23
James Talmage, Jesus the Christ, pg. 39

And no, I have never been a Mormon and never will be. I stayed in Salt Lake City for a while, while my sweetie took some classes. I found it to be a very bizarre place so I began to study the LDS. I would sit on a hill side in the early morning hours on Sunday, in different locations around SLC, and watch different polygamous families pile into their Suburbans (Mormon Assault Vehicles) or (Polygarigs) and go to church. I was going to do an expose but I found it to be...shall I say...unhealthy. I decided to leave it alone. Most LDS members do not practice it but many still do. I will get serious flack for what I have just written here but it is true. I prefer the truth to politically correct.

Fr_Chuck

sorry magprob, I know we have a couple LDS here and I thing a reorginsed LDS and at least one or two past ( I know it is one of our regular and thouth it was you. I have alot of thier books and writings, I alwasy get a kick, the missionary guys, I read alotof their books in a comparitive religion class ( read the quran also) but it was been a while,

Not saying anything you were saying was not true, but it can help others reading this to know more where to find the material,

Thanks for the research, Mormon assault vechiles, you behave.I may have to steal that one,

But I will say this on polygamy, I couild never find anything from a religious view point that would be against it, except for church leaders.
Dont know why anyone would want to, often one seems like one to many.

Lacey5765

Thanks for the defense Fr-Chuck. magprob, you have some misinformation. Maybe this can help from LDS.org As even a cursory glance at early Christian thought reveals, the idea that man might become as God—known in Greek as theosis or theopoiesis—may be found virtually everywhere, from the New Testament through the writings of the first four centuries. Church members take seriously such passages as Psalm 82:6 [Ps. 82:6], John 10:33–36, and Philippians 2:5–6 [Philip. 2:5–6], in which a plurality of gods and the idea of becoming like God are mentioned.

The notion of theosis is characteristic of church fathers Irenaeus (second century a.d.), Clement of Alexandria (third century a.d.), and Athanasius (fourth century a.d.). Indeed, so pervasive was the doctrine in the fourth century that Athanasius’s archenemies, the Arians, also held the belief 3 and the Origenist monks at Jerusalem heatedly debated “whether all men would finally become like Christ or whether Christ was really a different creature.” 4

According to an ancient formula, “God became man that man might become God.” Early Christians “were invited to ‘study’ to become gods” (note the plural). 5

Though the idea of human deification waned in the Western church in the Middle Ages, it remained very much alive in the Eastern Orthodox faith, which includes such Christian sects today as the Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox churches. 6 Jaroslav Pelikan notes, “The chief idea of St. Maximus, as of all Eastern theology, [was] the idea of deification.” 7

Is the subject of deification truly a closed question? After all, echoes of man becoming like God are still found in the work of later and modern writers in the West. For instance, C. S. Lewis’s writings are full of the language of human deification. 8 Even Martin Luther was capable of speaking of the “deification of human nature,” although in what sense it is not clear. 9

Related to the claim that Latter-day Saints are not Christians because of their belief in deification is the assertion that if they hold to some kind of belief in deification then it must be that Church members do not view Jesus as uniquely divine. Such an assertion is totally erroneous. The phrase “Only Begotten Son” occurs with its variants at least ten times in the Book of Mormon, fourteen times in the Doctrine and Covenants, and nineteen times in the Pearl of Great Price. Basic to Latter-day Saint theology is the uniqueness of Jesus Christ as the Only Begotten Son of the Father in the flesh.

magprob

[quote=Lacey5765]Thanks for the defense Fr-Chuck. magprob, you have some misinformation. Maybe this can help from LDS.org

No, this is Mormon doctrine. I didn't make it up. The Mormons did.

Joseph Smith, Pearl of Great Price, Writings of Joseph Smith, 2:19
Orson Pratt, The Seer, pg 132
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol 7, pg. 333
Pratt, The Seer, pg. 23
James Talmage, Jesus the Christ, pg. 39

Auttajasi

Magprob,
You are just wrong. Don't know what else to say about that. Find another place to vent your frustrations about Mormons. I have heard some weird things that Mormons 'supposedly' believe, but your's were all new to me.

The rhetoric and tone of your post denotes not only a disagreement, but a strong dislike of Mormons. As a request, please try to respect the personal beliefs of others. This is fundamental to being a good person. In turn, I will respect your obvious grudge against Mormons.

People are always going to dislike Mormons for the simple fact that we are different and our beliefs challenge existing beliefs. Why is it that people who strongly disagree with Mormons tend to be hateful or violent towards us? It's interesting that Mormons disagree with other Christians just as much, but you don't hear of us printing anti-"other Christian faith" literature, or chasing Mormons out of neighborhoods with knives and baseball bats (yes, I served my 2-year mission). Just a curious observation. Why do we ignore the extensive common ground that Mormons have with other Christians, and just point out the differences? Treating ALL people with respect regardless of our differences is a fundamental belief of the Mormon Church. Something we learned from Jesus.

Now back to the post.
Not that I can add anything to Lacey's very well researched post.
Is it so hard to believe that there is more to this universe than just us? Those who believe, spend their entire lives trying to obey God's commandments. We continually fail, but then the grace of Jesus Christ picks us back up. Do we do this just to quit when we pass from our mortal life? No. I believe it continues. So in theory, if we are constantly trying to be like God, doesn't it make sense that some day we will? To me it does. It makes perfect sense.
To echo Lacey, we still hold Jesus Christ as our Savior and the Only Begotten Son.

Starman

I don't believe all the things you say I believe about the LDS. I am aware that they place their faith in Jesus' sacrifice for forgiveness of sin as I am aware that they believe him to be God's Only Begotten Son. I also am aware that they expect to become like God.

My quandary is in reference to the belief that God was once a human being before he became God. What biblical basis do the LDS have to reach such a conclusion?