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In this time of "politically correct" it seems that there is a general good feel attitude about religion. "You're OK, I'm OK" pretty well expresses it. Folks say it doesn't matter how you serve God, because we are all His children. I submit for your consideration this: the God of the Bible is not the same as Allah. Discussion anyone?
When the true aim of Islam is to convert all Christians to Islam or kill them, then you can bet some Christian folks are going to get riled. If you think this is a simple, peacfull discussion between two peacful religions then you are delusional. All I can tell you is that we need to kill them before they try to kill us and I will be the first in the trench to do just that. If Islam is such a wonderful, peaceful religion, then why don't all of the peacful ones do something to stop this mess? they do not want to simply because they all believe Christians should convert to Islam , what they call the one true religion, or die. Tell me, when did you ever hear of Christians giving them the same ultimatum? You haven't. The Christian GOD and the Islam god are not the same in the hearts of the two different believers. Now you can sit here and argue that point untill hell freezes over and you will just continue to show how uninformed you truely are.
True, if I thought that Christendom and "Islamdom" ever have been or are now in good terms with one another then I would definitely be delusional and uninformed.
No, honestly I have asked this question 100's of time, and I have never, not once had a Muslim tell them that these attacks and killing were wrong.
Sorry, you will find priests that tell you the truth about the small number and that the news shows the history going back 20 years. And that more school teachers molest than preists every year.
But I hear people say they have studed this or that, or that they are Muslim and they are peaceful but when I ask them to denouce what happened and tell me that these people were wrong, I have never had a Muslim tell me that.
I have. And I know for a fact that just as there are many branches of Christendom so it is in the Muslim world. To judge another because he will not act or behave or speak as you would wish is.............not good for a man of the cloth or anyone else, in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
True, if I thought that Christendom and "Islamdom" ever have been or are now in good terms with one another then I would definitely be delusional and uninformed.
To put it correctly Christians are not in tune with each other as are Muslims not in complete harmony either, so if they are differences among them, then there are bound to be differences between them. In my opinion they are both more alike than either cares to admit............As in DENIAL of the real truth.........................They are closely alike. None no righter than the other.
To put it correctly Christians are not in tune with each other as are Muslims not in complete harmony either, so if they are differences among them, then there are bound to be differences between them. In my opinion they are both more alike than either cares to admit............As in DENIAL of the real truth.........................They are closely alike. None no righter than the other.
First I would like to clarify:
We are not in any position to condemned anyone to eternal damnation based on his or her present beliefs. God values sincerity and understands when one is mislead and he doesn't destroy based on ignorance but gives each person a chance to make an INFORMED decision. From a Christian viewpoint that informed decision is based on the certain knowledge that Jesus died for our sins and that salvation comes only by accepting it and taking the necessary action to avail ourselves of the benefits.
About similarities and differences between and among:
True, there are certain doctrinal differences within the Christian ranks. But ultimately, all Christians acknowledge Jesus as savior and that is the unifying factor. In short, when the time comes for God to begin doctrinal clarification, Christians will not have to begin to accept Jesus-since they already have. In contrast, Buddhists, Shintoists, Moslems, and all other nonChrisatians will have to make a complete doctrinal about face.
So from a Christian standpoint, it is primarily that crucial fact--the acceptance or rejection of the Ransom Sacrifice which drastically separates Christian from Moslems.
Are we worshipping the same God? I would say that barring such practices as human sacrifices and other such obviously demonic things, it depends on how God views each person's heart. The intention might be honest and pure and it is appreciated. But the manner might need some adjustments. In his mercy God is just and it's best to let him decide that on an individual basis. But ultimately he will require that we listen to what he tells us is the WAY to worship and our reaction to that requirement will determine whether or not we gain eternal life.
Christians: One GOD is revealed in scripture as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Islam: There is no god but allah.
Christians:Jesus is the Son of GOD, one with the Father, sinless redeamer of sinful man through his vicarious death on the cross and resurection from the dead.
Islam: Jesus was only a man, a prophet equal to Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses, all of whom are below Muhammed in importance. Christ did not die for man's sins; in fact Judas, not Jesus, died on the cross.
Christians: Sin is proud, independant rebellion against GOD in active or passive form.
Islam: Sin is falure to do allah's will, falure to do one's religious duties as outlined in the "five pillars of faith."
Christians: Christ-GOD's Son-died for our sins (on the cross) according to the inspired
Word of GOD.
Islam: Man earns his own salvation, pays for his own sins.
I haven't studied Islam for 25 years since it took me only a few hours to see the truth.
All I am saying is that the facts represent the truth, they are very different indeed. if you are a muslem then good for you, as a matter of fact, isn't it time for you to squat facing Mecca and pray? Well, chop chop, better get to it or you know what, no twenty seven virgins for you! Oh, and by the way, if you attack my country again, i'll see you in the trenches.
I have talked to many and they see to fall short calling what thier fellow Muslims did was wrong and agaisnt thier faith
So how about you, Friar, are you willing to call what your fellow Christian magprob advocates wrong, and against the Christian faith? Or should we interpret your silence to mean that you agree?
Quote:
Originally Posted by magprob
All I can tell you is that we need to kill them before they try to kill us
We are not in any position to condemned anyone to eternal damnation based on his or her present beliefs. God values sincerity and understands when one is mislead and he doesn't destroy based on ignorance but gives each person a chance to make an INFORMED decision. From a Christian viewpoint that informed decision is based on the certain knowledge that Jesus died for our sins and that salvation comes only by accepting it and taking the necessary action to avail ourselves of the benefits.
About similarities and differences between and among:
True, there are certain doctrinal differences within the Christian ranks. But ultimately, all Christians acknowledge Jesus as savior and that is the unifying factor. In short, when the time comes for God to begin doctrinal clarification, Christians will not have to begin to accept Jesus-since they already have. In contrast, Buddhists, Shintoists, Moslems, and all other nonChrisatians will have to make a complete doctrinal about face.
So from a Christian standpoint, it is primarily that crucial fact--the acceptance or rejection of the Ransom Sacrifice which drastically separates Christian from Moslems.
Are we worshipping the same God? I would say that barring such practices as human sacrifices and other such obviously demonic things, it depends on how God views each person's heart. The intention might be honest and pure and it is appreciated. But the manner might need some adjustments. In his mercy God is just and it's best to let him decide that on an individual basis. But ultimately he will require that we listen to what he tells us is the WAY to worship and our reaction to that requirement will determine whether or not we gain eternal life.
no, there is only one true faith, which is Christianity, and in the end as Rev and other bible prophecy tells us ( heck even the Quran tells us) there will be a final great War between beleivers and non believers, nothing can stop that day from comming.
So how about you, Friar, are you willing to call what your fellow Christian magprob advocates wrong, and against the Christian faith? Or should we interpret your silence to mean that you agree?
So you promote a passive stance yet defend Islam. That's it, I am through with this post as I see what we're up against...argument simply for the sake of argument with people ill equiped to argue.
We are not in any position to condemned anyone to eternal damnation based on his or her present beliefs. God values sincerity and understands when one is mislead and he doesn't destroy based on ignorance but gives each person a chance to make an INFORMED decision. From a Christian viewpoint that informed decision is based on the certain knowledge that Jesus died for our sins and that salvation comes only by accepting it and taking the necessary action to avail ourselves of the benefits. That's your version and your welcome to it
About similarities and differences between and among:
True, there are certain doctrinal differences within the Christian ranks. But ultimately, all Christians acknowledge Jesus as savior and that is the unifying factor. In short, when the time comes for God to begin doctrinal clarification, Christians will not have to begin to accept Jesus-since they already have. In contrast, Buddhists, Shintoists, Moslems, and all other nonChrisatians will have to make a complete doctrinal about face. Because one believes differently do we have to fight about it, lets do lunch, I can wear red you can wear blue. What difference does it make?
So from a Christian standpoint, it is primarily that crucial fact--the acceptance or rejection of the Ransom Sacrifice which drastically separates Christian from Moslems. So thats an excuse to fight instead of break bread?
Are we worshipping the same God? I would say that barring such practices as human sacrifices and other such obviously demonic things, it depends on how God views each person's heart. The intention might be honest and pure and it is appreciated. But the manner might need some adjustments. In his mercy God is just and it's best to let him decide that on an individual basis. But ultimately he will require that we listen to what he tells us is the WAY to worship and our reaction to that requirement will determine whether or not we gain eternal life. By your own words their is only one God so no matter the rest he will judge as he does and we can only succumb to that judgement
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
no, there is only one true faith, which is Christianity, and in the end as Rev and other bible prophecy tells us ( heck even the Quran tells us) there will be a final great War between beleivers and non believers, nothing can stop that day from comming.
The KORAN and the BIBLE are books, Man is FLESH, God is SPIRIT and all religions come from that. That is the only true faith. What you have going is a branch in the tree, and if you step back you would see that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
So how about you, Friar, are you willing to call what your fellow Christian magprob advocates wrong, and against the Christian faith? Or should we interpret your silence to mean that you agree?
He will not answer, Yet he expects answers from others.
No, honestly I have asked this question 100's of time, and I have never, not once had a Muslim tell them that these attacks and killing were wrong.
Sorry, you will find priests that tell you the truth about the small number and that the news shows the history going back 20 years. And that more school teachers molest than preists every year.
But I hear people say they have studed this or that, or that they are Muslim and they are peaceful but when I ask them to denouce what happened and tell me that these people were wrong, I have never had a Muslim tell me that.
Perhaps the following sites might help allay your fears?
Mustafa Mashhur, General Guide, Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt; Qazi Hussain Ahmed, Ameer, Jamaat-e-Islami Pakistan, Pakistan; Muti Rahman Nizami, Ameer, Jamaat-e-Islami Bangladesh, Bangladesh; Shaykh Ahmad Yassin, Founder, Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas), Palestine; Rashid Ghannoushi, President, Nahda Renaissance Movement, Tunisia; Fazil Nour, President, PAS - Parti Islam SeMalaysia, Malaysia; and 40 other Muslim scholars and politicians:
“The undersigned, leaders of Islamic movements, are horrified by the events of Tuesday 11 September 2001 in the United States which resulted in massive killing, destruction and attack on innocent lives. We express our deepest sympathies and sorrow. We condemn, in the strongest terms, the incidents, which are against all human and Islamic norms. This is grounded in the Noble Laws of Islam which forbid all forms of attacks on innocents. God Almighty says in the Holy Qur'an: 'No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another' (Surah al-Isra 17:15).”
[SIZE=-2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-2]MSANews, September 14, 2001, http://msanews.mynet.net/MSANEWS/200109/20010917.15.html;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-2]Arabic original in al-Quds al-Arabi (London), September 14, 2001, p. 2, http://www.alquds.co.uk/Alquds/2001/09Sep/14%20Sep%20Fri/Quds02.pdf[/SIZE]
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