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In this time of "politically correct" it seems that there is a general good feel attitude about religion. "You're OK, I'm OK" pretty well expresses it. Folks say it doesn't matter how you serve God, because we are all His children. I submit for your consideration this: the God of the Bible is not the same as Allah. Discussion anyone?
My issue with some of the comments is that this thread is about Allah and God and the use of those words as being the same person or god.
While many threads wonder, I would ask why someone who is a athiest would get into the discussion since they don't beleive in either as being real at all. They have no input as to this discussion, it was not a discussion if they are real, or if you should beleive, or if you should be preaching about them.
And honestly after a couple private messages they are obviously done with some anti religious feelings almost to the point of being a set up for a agruement.
I would ask that if you wish to discuss if God is real, start your own thread on that, or find one already in the works. If you wish to add to the ongoing discussion of Allah and God, and even how the various religions have reached thier translations of the words, fine,
I perhaps should have moved these to a new post, which is a fine discussion that I would love to see from time to time, but not on an existing post please, lets keep the post slightly more directed
letmetellu wrote: "Christians try to sell Jesus to you because they are trying to make you understand the fact that there is an afterlife..."
Here is the problem I, and other atheists have with proselytizing. In the quote above you say the afterlife is a fact. Sorry, it is NOT. It is your belief. Nothing more. Don't try to sell something as fact when it is not. False advertising. Please, stop acting like you have something on the rest of us. All you have is a belief that is unprovable, and from what I can see, also damaging to relationships between members of the same society.
As Americans, we need to leave our religion at home. The public spaces are not christian, and you cannot make them so (though I believe that is what you want. But, it is just my belief, I no way to prove it.).
I am very concerned about our country devolving. Your Christianizing of the country is not helping!
I know it is a choice and it is what I believe, I also know what you believe or at least what you don't believe. But someday in the future you will hope that I am wrong for if I am right where does that leave you.?
In the discussion so far, something needs to be pointed out: Allah has no Son. In fact, I believe that most Muslims would say that the very idea is repugnant to them. However, there is little valid argument that the God of the Bible does indeed have a son, one Jesus of Nazareth, and that He Loved the world so much that He sent that Son to bring salvation to us and sealed the promise by raising Jesus from the dead.
In the discussion so far, something needs to be pointed out: Allah has no Son. In fact, I believe that most Muslims would say that the very idea is repugnant to them. However, there is little valid argument that the God of the Bible does indeed have a son, one Jesus of Nazareth, and that He Loved the world so much that He sent that Son to bring salvation to us and sealed the promise by raising Jesus from the dead.
Little vaid argument?
Considerable argument! Including the words of the Book Muslim hold sacred.
But if you look ( not defending Islam of course) but they have a comparison, in the end, there is a person or spirit of light that is looked for.
I have always when trying to discuss Christianity with people from Islam, say could this light not be Jesus, or the Son of God.
And actually in Christianity for several hundred years, there was some debate if Jesus was the true Son of God, or merely a son in a more general term used and picked by God for the mission of salvation, and even a few groups that viewed Jesus the man as being saved somehow at the last minute, ( the same basic teachings as found in the Quran)
The idea and acceptance that Christ was the Son of God is now fairly universally accepted for Christians. ( and I say fairly, since I don't know every denomination and thier teachings, I know some don't accept the trinity)
But that was actually part of one of the Churches Synods and voted on, and declared the rule, But there were early sects normally rejected by main stream that did have other teachings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwimac
Little vaid argument?
Considerable argument! Including the words of the Book Muslim hold sacred.
In his context, he said, ( God of the Bible) so according to the Bible, not according to the Quran or other writings, And according to the bible and according to church doctrine, there is little argument today.
According to the Quran or according to a Buddist, or other faith that does not accept the teachings of the bible, then in general there is not an argument only a disagreement on which if any writtings are true and valid.
For that beleif, in which is true, hinges the major issue.
But personally, I have always related Allah and God, even in the context of Islam and Christianity as being the same God, there are many who will agrue they are not. All of these people who beleive either way are fine people, who are trained in bible study much more than I am, and both sides present great view points.
So I guess in the end, I have to ask, to the Christian does it matter if Islam beleives it is the same God or not. And to Islam does it matter if a Christian beleives it is the same God or not. To each there are so many other teaching ideas that seperate us, I am not sure if this one is ever agreeable to the majority of either group.
And of course to those that don't beleive in either religion, to them it does not matter at all, since both are false in thier beleif.
Now I wil throw this addition out for an idea, if someone who does not beleive in either, that means they rate both as false, does this make them the same, in thier mind, since they are false, or are they two seperate false gods in thier mind? Or if they don't beleive do they care
In the discussion so far, something needs to be pointed out: Allah has no Son. In fact, I believe that most Muslims would say that the very idea is repugnant to them. However, there is little valid argument that the God of the Bible does indeed have a son, one Jesus of Nazareth, and that He Loved the world so much that He sent that Son to bring salvation to us and sealed the promise by raising Jesus from the dead.
I'm not sure what you mean by "little valid argument".
Here are some of those whom the scriptures call sons of God:
1. Angels
Job 1:
6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
2. Perfect humans such as Adam
Luke 3:38 (Genealogy of Jesus)..."the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."
3. His only begotten Son Jesus or the Word as he was referred to in heaven before coming to Earth.
Luke 1:34-35
"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?" The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God."
1 John 4:13-15
We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.
4. Redeemed humans who are spiritually begotten via the operation of holy spirit.
Romans 8:14
...", because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God."
The following website provides more examples
:Son of God
So I guess all these scriptures would be unacceptable from an Islamic viewpoint.
In order to answer the original question more directly, we have to ask ourselves just what it is that differentiates us from one another. Isn't it appearance and personality? Yet identical twins aren't considered the same person. In fact, that applies to everything else that might be visually identical. So even if the entity which Islam and Christianity referred to as God were identical in appearance, power, or anything other than personality, they still wouldn't be the same God due to differences in actual personalities or in the way which the personalities are described.
So you have very effectively, in my view, answered your own question by describing Allah as a God who doesn't offer sonship and Jehovah as a God who does.
I submit for your consideration this: the God of the Bible is not the same as Allah. Discussion anyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
In the discussion so far, something needs to be pointed out: Allah has no Son. In fact, I believe that most Muslims would say that the very idea is repugnant to them. However, there is little valid argument that the God of the Bible does indeed have a son, one Jesus of Nazareth, and that He Loved the world so much that He sent that Son to bring salvation to us and sealed the promise by raising Jesus from the dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
So I guess all these scriptures would be unacceptable from an Islamic viewpoint.
Well, Duh!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
So you have very effectively, in my view, answered your own question by describing Allah as a God who doesn't offer sonship and Jehovah as a God who does.
It seems that the only point to the original post and all the pro-God anti-Allah commentary since, is to cheer for Christianity and the Bible and denigrate Islam and the Quran. This attitude has more in common with sports fans cheering their own team and bad-mouthing their opponents than with constructive dialogue between sincere people of faith. It doesn't contribute to understanding between Christians and Muslims, and it invites the scorn of unbelievers. If those results are satisfying to you, cheer on, I guess.
Reminds me of the arguments in my old neighborhood, between the Bear fans and the Packer fans, but there were 6 Bear fans, and 1 Packer fan. Bear fans always won the arguments, no matter the Packers would win the game. Not a lot of those who follow Allah weighed in, so this was so lopsided that the similarities could not be put forth, but a lot of negativity by the Christian crew sure buried the other side. Similar to life I suspect, but so sad that people would be so closed minded because of their doctrines. Doctrines notwhitstanding, I think its all about semantics.
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