In this time of "politically correct" it seems that there is a general good feel attitude about religion. "You're OK, I'm OK" pretty well expresses it. Folks say it doesn't matter how you serve God, because we are all His children. I submit for your consideration this: the God of the Bible is not the same as Allah. Discussion anyone?

kiwimac

No?

Jesus was a pharisee, his teachings are those of the Hillelite school made famous by Gamaliel. Paul, for all his posturing, was almost certainly a Sadducee, his teachings differed considerably from those of the Jerusalem church led by James and Peter.

Morganite

Paul was a Pharisee, and was taught at the feet of Gamaliel. Jesus set himself apart from Sadducee, Pharisee, and Essene.

When Paul - as Saul - had completed the studies as given in the Jewish schools at Tarsus, and had learned his trade, he desired to attend college. He was then, probably, about fourteen years of age. There were Gentile universities near his home, but, as he wanted to become a Rabbi, he went to Jerusalem, and became a student in the famous School of Hillel.

The president of this noted institution of learning was, "a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law had in reputation among all the people." It is supposed that he was a son of Simeon who was in the Temple when the little baby Jesus was blessed.

As to the leanings of Jesus, whatever the words used, the thoughts he expressed, and the doctrine he taught, his preachments were not like those of the scribes. He spoke in his own right, with authority, and not by reciting long concatenations of Rabbinical lore and tradition.

Consequently, it is recorded that "The Jews marvelled" at his teachings. Their natural queries were: "How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?" "He is no authorized Rabbi; He belongs to no recognized school; neither the followers of Hillel nor those of Shammai claim Him; He is a Nazarene; He was trained in the shop of the Galilean carpenter; how knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

Writes Farrar: "In all ages there is a tendency to mistake erudition for learning, knowledge for wisdom; in all ages there has been a slowness to comprehend that true learning of the deepest and noblest character may coexist with complete and utter ignorance of everything which absorbs and constitutes the learning of the schools.And so, to their misplaced queries, Jesus responds:

'My doctrine is not mine but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God or whether I speak of myself.'" [Life of Christ]

I have not heard of Jesus being claimed for a Pharisee. In the Jewish culture of Jesus' day there were many discordant and divisive voices crying out in defense of divergent divorce standards and advocating differing marriage disciplines. Plural marriage, handed down from their fathers, was still practiced, though it does not seem to have been the dominant order of matrimony. Their main difficulties, however, seem to have grown out of the meaning of this Mosaic statement:

"When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife." (Deut. 24:1-2.)

The Pharisaic question assumes the propriety of divorce; the issue, as they express it, is, may it be granted "for every cause"; and, in theory at least, this depends upon the meaning of the Mosaic phrase "some uncleanness," which may also be translated "some unseemly thing," or "some matter of shame," or, literally, "some matter of nakedness."

On this point the School of Shammai interpreted the Mosaic standard so as to allow divorce only for unchastity, while the School of Hillel allowed almost any trivial act to sever a marriage. Among these the Mishnah recites such things as: seeing another woman who pleased him more; feeling any disgust toward the wife; spoiling her husband's dinner; breaking the law of tithing, or other Mosaic requirement; going in public with an uncovered head; spinning in the public streets; brawling or being troublesome, or quarrelsome, or of ill repute; being childless for ten years; and on and on and on.

These differences between the two major schools led, it is said, to the Jewish proverb: "Hillel loosed what Shammai bound."

In practice there were many divorces for minor reasons. But Jesus, in his reply, as his wont was, rose above the battleground of the Rabbinists and went back to first principles.

Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

In that he stood neither in the Pharisaic tradition, nor in the tradiitonms of (The Great) Hillel.

Would you care to share your reasons for saying he did?


MRGANITE


.

Morganite

It is true that the author of Hebrews is probably unknown, it is Pauline in approach and ideas, so an ascription of it to Paul has been accepted by non-specialists.

I responded to your argument agains what ordinaryguy wrote when he spoke of Paul equating the sacrificial death of Jesus "in a manner consistent with the Old Testament temple rituals of atonement for sin by animal sacrifice."

If you will read Hebrews, you will discover that the writer - apart from the tangenital issue of who he might be - is very familiar with temple ritual and redemptive sacrifice, and plays off the position and finction of Jesus Christ as Saviour against the Old testament Paradigm. That is what OG pointed out and it ought not to be difficult for you to conceded that such is indisputable. Why then dispute it without evidentiaty argument? If you have a case, I am, confidant that I will not be the only one interested in putting it to the test.

Morganite

How remarkably arrogant you sound. Would you care to be more specific by providing some particular examples? If all you really mean is that you disagree qwith my understanding of scripture, then I fail to see how that is even remarkable?

At your pleasure.

Retrotia

Arrogant about what? The comment I made is almost 2 months ago & sorry, but I cannot really get the feeling back.
I think it had to do with the flow of the posts- how you were quick to discredit your Christian fellow & were more than patient & generous to the heathen-even when they didn't accept your answer entirely & they went on to state their case with more believers!

Ordinaryguy had a qualm with Paul's teachings. I think they are great-all the epistles. I think if one reads the entire N.T., there shouldn't be any "hang-up" in understanding the Blood Atonement of the N.T. The Lamb, period.
Paul was a convert from Judaism- why wouldn't he mention the High Priest- & the Tabernacle things? But it's so small & ordinaryguy couldn't get passed Jesus' suffering & dying for our sins. The Intercessor between God & man. It was necessary bc God said it was & Jesus freely gave up his life for us.
NOW---We are in Christ Jesus. My Church does not have a cross at the altar--bc 'it is done'.
My Church doesn't have a problem with any of Paul's teachings. Gifts of the Spirit--Armor of God- all Paul's Epistles are needed &" All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in rightousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoughly equipped for every good work" 2 Timothy 3:16,17.
NKJ
So, have a nice day. Maybe I'll forgive you for calling me a blasphemer on one of the Christian threads!

firmbeliever

Who is Allah?
III&E Brochure Series; No. 2
(published by The Institute of Islamic Information and Education (III&E))

It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities. This is not the case with Allah. Allah is the personal name of the One true God. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender. This shows its uniqueness when compared with the word god which can be made plural, gods, or feminine, goddess. It is interesting to notice that Allah is the personal name of God in Aramaic, the language of Jesus and a sister language of Arabic.

The One true God is a reflection of the unique concept that Islam associates with God. To a Muslim, Allah is the Almighty, Creator and Sustainer of the universe, Who is similar to nothing and nothing is comparable to Him. The Prophet Muhammad was asked by his contemporaries about Allah; the answer came directly from God Himself in the form of a short chapter of the Quran, which is considered the essence of the unity or the motto of monotheism. This is chapter 112 which reads:

"In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate.
Say (O Muhammad) He is God the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone."
Some non-Muslims allege that God in Islam is a stern and cruel God who demands to be obeyed fully. He is not loving and kind. Nothing can be farther from truth than this allegation. It is enough to know that, with the exception of one, each of the 114 chapters of the Quran begins with the verse: "In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate." In one of the sayings of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) we are told that "God is more loving and kinder than a mother to her dear child."

But God is also Just. Hence evildoers and sinners must have their share of punishment and the virtuous, His bounties and favors. Actually God's attribute of Mercy has full manifestation in His attribute of Justice. People suffering throughout their lives for His sake and people oppressing and exploiting other people all their lives should not receive similar treatment from their Lord. Expecting similar treatment for them will amount to negating the very belief in the accountability of man in the Hereafter and thereby negating all the incentives for a moral and virtuous life in this world. The following Quranic verses are very clear and straightforward in this respect:

"Verily, for the Righteous are gardens of Delight, in the Presence of their Lord. Shall We then treat the people of Faith like the people of Sin? What is the matter with you? How judge you?" (68:34-36)

continued in next post....

firmbeliever

Islam rejects characterizing God in any human form or depicting Him as favoring certain individuals or nations on the basis of wealth, power or race. He created the human beings as equals. They may distinguish themselves and get His favor through virtue and piety only.

The concept that God rested in the seventh day of creation, that God wrestled with one of His soldiers, that God is an envious plotter against mankind, or that God is incarnate in any human being are considered blasphemy from the Islamic point of view.

The unique usage of Allah as a personal name of God is a reflection of Islam's emphasis on the purity of the belief in God which is the essence of the message of all God's messengers. Because of this, Islam considers associating any deity or personality with God as a deadly sin which God will never forgive, despite the fact He may forgive all other sins.

[Note that what is meant above applies ONLY to those people who die in a state wherein they are associating others with God. The repentance of those who yet live is acceptable to God if He wills. - MSA of USC]
The Creator must be of a different nature from the things created because if he is of the same nature as they are, he will be temporal and will therefore need a maker. It follows that nothing is like Him. If the maker is not temporal, then he must be eternal. But if he is eternal, he cannot be caused, and if nothing outside him causes him to continue to exist, which means that he must be self-sufficient. And if the does not depend on anything for the continuance of his own existence, then this existence can have no end. The Creator is therefore eternal and everlasting: "He is the First and the Last."

He is Self-Sufficient or Self-Subsistent or, to use a Quranic term, Al-Qayyum. The Creator does not create only in the sense of bringing things into being, He also preserves them and takes them out of existence and is the ultimate cause of whatever happens to them.

"God is the Creator of everything. He is the guardian over everything. Unto Him belong the keys of the heavens and the earth." (39:62, 63)

"No creature is there crawling on the earth, but its provision rests on God. He knows its lodging place and it repository." (11:6)

God's Attributes
If the Creator is Eternal and Everlasting, then His attributes must also be eternal and everlasting. He should not lose any of His attributes nor acquire new ones. If this is so, then His attributes are absolute. Can there be more than one Creator with such absolute attributes? Can there be for example, two absolutely powerful Creators? A moment's thought shows that this is not feasible.

The Quran summarizes this argument in the following verses:

"God has not taken to Himself any son, nor is there any god with Him: For then each god would have taken of that which he created and some of them would have risen up over others." (23:91)

And Why, were there gods in earth and heaven other than God, they (heaven and earth) would surely go to ruin." (21:22)

The Oneness of God
The Quran reminds us of the falsity of all alleged gods. To the worshippers of man-made objects, it asks:
"Do you worship what you have carved yourself?" (37:95)

"Or have you taken unto you others beside Him to be your protectors, even such as have no power either for good or for harm to themselves?" (13:16)

To the worshippers of heavenly bodies it cites the story of Abraham:
"When night outspread over him he saw a star and said, 'This is my Lord.' But when it set he said, 'I love not the setters.' When he saw the moon rising, he said, 'This is my Lord.' But when it set he said, 'If my Lord does not guide me I shall surely be of the people gone astray.' When he saw the sun rising, he said, 'This is my Lord; this is greater.' But when it set he said, 'O my people, surely I quit that which you associate, I have turned my face to Him Who originated the heavens and the earth; a man of pure faith, I am not of the idolaters.'" (6:76-79)

continued in next post....

firmbeliever

The Believer's Attitude
In order to be a Muslim, i.e., to surrender oneself to God, it is necessary to believe in the oneness of God, in the sense of His being the only Creator, Preserver, Nourisher, etc. But this belief - later on called "Tawhid Ar-Rububiyyah" - is not enough. Many of the idolaters knew and believed that only the Supreme God could do all this, but that was not enough to make them Muslims. To tawhid ar-rububiyyah one must add tawhid al'uluhiyyah, i.e., one acknowledges the fact that is God alone Who deserves to be worshipped, and thus abstains from worshipping any other thing or being.

Having achieved this knowledge of the one true God, man should constantly have faith in Him, and should allow nothing to induce him to deny truth.

When faith enters a person's heart, it causes certain mental states which result in certain actions. Taken together these mental states and actions are the proof for the true faith. The Prophet said, "Faith is that which resides firmly in the heart and which is proved by deeds." Foremost among those mental states is the feeling of gratitude towards God which could be said to be the essence of 'ibada' (worship).

The feeling of gratitude is so important that a non-believer is called 'kafir' which means 'one who denies a truth' and also 'one who is ungrateful.'

A believer loves, and is grateful to God for the bounties He bestowed upon him, but being aware of the fact that his good deeds, whether mental or physical, are far from being commensurate with Divine favors, he is always anxious lest God should punish him, here or in the Hereafter. He, therefore, fears Him, surrenders himself to Him and serves Him with great humility. One cannot be in such a mental state without being almost all the time mindful of God. Remembering God is thus the life force of faith, without which it fades and withers away.

The Quran tries to promote this feeling of gratitude by repeating the attributes of God very frequently. We find most of these attributes mentioned together in the following verses of the Quran:

"He is God; there is no god but He, He is the Knower of the unseen and the visible; He is the All-Merciful, the All-Compassionate. He is God, there is no God but He. He is the King, the All-Holy, the All-Peace, the Guardian of Faith, the All-Preserver, the All-Mighty, the All-Compeller, the All-Sublime. Glory be to God, above that they associate! He is God the Creator, the Maker, the Shaper. To Him belong the Names Most Beautiful. All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Him; He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise." (59:22-24)

"There is no god but He, the Living, the Everlasting. Slumber seizes Him not, neither sleep; to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. Who is there that shall intercede with Him save by His leave? He knows what lies before them and what is after them, and they comprehend not anything of His knowledge save such as He wills. His throne comprises the heavens and earth; the preserving of them oppresses Him not; He is the All-High, the All-Glorious." (2:255)

"People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, 'Three.' Refrain; better is it for you. God is only one God. Glory be to Him - (He is) above having a son." (4:171)

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Disclaimer:-I provide information for those who may wish to know.
I am not here to argue or to prove a point and I do not have to prove my faith to any human....
I believe what I believe and practice it to the best of my abilities...

Morganite

I read on a Christian fundamentlaist website recently that Allah is an Arabic Moon God. Have you heard of the before, and how do you answer it?

Personally, I believe that the site is shoddy in its research and contentious in spirit.


MRGANITE

firmbeliever

As muslims believe Allah is the Lord from the beginning before time itself and will remain the same.
We also believe Him to be the Lord who sent the Prophets, Noah,Moses,Jesus etc, hence my guess would be that the word "Allah" is not a new one, but this word must have been common among many, and maybe some people used the name for their own beliefs.

Does not mean that when muslims use it they are referring to the moon.

As I am no expert....
Here;s what Wikipedia says
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah

Allah (Arabic: اﷲ, Allāh) is the standard Arabic word for "God", derived from al-ilah, the God.[1][2] The term is best known in the West for its use by Muslims as a reference to God.[3] Arabic-speakers of all faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God".[4] The Muslim and Christian Arabs of today have no other word for 'God' than 'Allah'.[5] In pre-Islamic Arabia, Allah was used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity.[6]

In Islam, Allah is the only deity, transcendent creator of the universe, and the judge of humankind.[3][1] Some Islamic scholars believe that the term "Allāh" should not be translated, arguing that "Allāh" as used in Islam is a special and glorified term whose use should be preserved, while God can also be used in reference to deities worshiped by polytheists.

According to F. E. Peters, "The Qur'an insists, Muslims believe, and historians affirm that Muhammad and his followers worship the same God as the Jews.[Qur'an 29:46] The Quran's Allah is the same Creator God who covenanted with Abraham". Peters states that the Qur'an portrays Allah as both more powerful and more remote than Yahweh, and as a universal deity, unlike Yahweh who closely follows Israelites.[7]

According to the tradition of Islam there are more than 99 Names of God (al-asma al-husna lit. meaning: "The best names") each of which evoke a distinct characteristic of Allah. The most famous and most frequent of these names are "the Merciful" (al-rahman) and "the Compassionate" (al-rahim).[8][3]

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also the following from the same article
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Translation

Some Muslim scholars feel that "Allāh" should not be translated, because they perceive the Arabic word to express the uniqueness of "Allāh" more accurately than the word "god" for two reasons:
The word "god" can take a plural form "gods", whereas the word "Allāh" in their view has no plural form.
The word "god" can have gender as male god or female god (called goddess) whereas the word "Allāh" in their view does not have gender.[15]

This is a significant issue in translation of the Qur'an.
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