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Home > Forum Community > Member Discussions > Other Member Discussions   »   What do you think?

 
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Old May 26, 2008, 01:21 PM
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What do you think?

by Floyd Ferris Landrath Oct. 15, 2007, Portland, Oregon - the nation’s boorish index took another jump recently when the Bush administration’s Justice Department announced a record 829,625 arrests (*) for simple possession of cannabis in 2006, a six percent increase over 2005. The news went directly into spin cycle where it was quickly overshadowed by the latest carnage from that other “war” to nowhere in Iraq. Which is just as well if you are pro-drug war. Stop and think about it, because even this record number of arrests for possession doesn’t amount to more than a zit on a flea’s butt. A fact lost on the press and media, and even most legalization organizations. Our government estimates there are about 15 million of us cannabis consumers. So last year’s ballyhooed “record” actually means that over 14 million of us successfully broke this law. Yeah! Team. In other words, unless you are not “white,” or fit some other “profile,” or just plain unlucky, most pot smokers have as much chance of being busted for simple possession, as getting hit by lighting. But stop smiling and put down that bong. There is a terrible cost for all this lawlessness that goes way beyond mere pot smoking. A mostly unenforceable, highly selectable law such as “simple possession” breeds contempt for all laws and those who enforce them. Like a loose thread in the fabric of society, eventually unraveling the entire garment. Yes we have record arrests, but not as much as we have record lawlessness. The real winners are anarchy and brutality. The kids see all this and what do you know, they emulate it. Reformers especially need to pay attention. The legalization movement has grown stale and timid. We need healthy and appropriate outrage over this widespread lawlessness. Essentially we need to show everyone - especially the law and order types - how these drug laws are destroying the rule of law itself. Cops and their unions need to ask why support laws which make an already dangerous, frustrating and often-thankless job even more so? It all comes down to asking a simple question: what is the point of having laws which are A) mostly unenforceable and B) widely ignored?I have no doubt society can withstand legalized drug use. However I know society cannot withstand lawlessness without eventual collapse. Witness Iraq. We have to do a much better job of connecting the dots between these drug laws and the massive, untaxed economic power they create. What is the point of having laws which are not only unenforceable and widely ignored, they also put billions of dollars into the hands of very evil people. We must constantly point out the decline of moral and ethical values as largely a result of our naked hypocrisy on drugs. This is crucial in the education of young people and ending the current schizoid split of what the kids learn about drugs from adults in the classroom, vs. the reality they see everyday on our drug-infested streets. That reality screams “Adults just don’t give a damn!” We need laws that respect our rights and only real criminals need fear. Legalization of all drugs, starting with cannabis, is the only way to save the good and necessary laws from these corrupting and widely ignored ones. It’s the only effective way to take both the drugs and money away from the bad guys. And it doesn’t take an army to do it.The lesson is as simple as it is important; without respect for the law, there is no law. (*) — Costs of enforcement comes to over $11,000.00 for each “simple possession.”

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Old May 28, 2008, 10:50 AM   #2  
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All I know is that when I lived in Alaska, each and every year it was put on the ballot. It would be legal one year and not the next. I am gonna go do some research on the "crime rate" there while it was legal and while it wasn't. Even if it was legal, we still couldnt sell it or get caught buying it nor could we have it outside the home. AND if we got caught inside the home with more than a certain amount, you would be in trouble. That did a lot of good huh? I dont smoke, but I agree to say it would be better if it were legal. Only to save that spot in a jail house for a gunman or a rapist, or more serious crimes like drunken driving, or what have you. You get the point! I like this post!
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Old May 28, 2008, 10:52 AM   #3  
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Have you ever heard of paragraphs? Indentation? It makes things much easier to read...
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Old May 28, 2008, 11:40 AM   #4  
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If it's too hard to read, i apologize, but you might try highlighting two lines at a time with your mouse.. and as you read drag your mouse down slowly..
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Old May 28, 2008, 11:42 AM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by startover22
All I know is that when I lived in Alaska, each and every year it was put on the ballot. It would be legal one year and not the next. I am gonna go do some research on the "crime rate" there while it was legal and while it wasn't. Even if it was legal, we still couldnt sell it or get caught buying it nor could we have it outside the home. AND if we got caught inside the home with more than a certain amount, you would be in trouble. That did a lot of good huh? I dont smoke, but I agree to say it would be better if it were legal. Only to save that spot in a jail house for a gunman or a rapist, or more serious crimes like drunken driving, or what have you. You get the point! I like this post!

Thank you for your added insight, your testimony will hopefully help others 'get the point'.
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Old May 28, 2008, 11:44 AM   #6  
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Well, I am still reading and reading, I cant seem to find anything that says it lowered the crime rate, just stuff that says people are worried that when it is legal, the quality goes down. LOL
A little help here??
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Old May 28, 2008, 11:48 AM   #7  
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give me a minute, i'll see if I can help...
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Old May 28, 2008, 11:54 AM   #8  
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I did find a few things.....
this is the website i was looking at.

Decriminalization of non-medical marijuana in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A National Institute on Drug Abuse brochure entitled "Marijuana: Facts for Teens" states "Using marijuana puts children and teens in contact with people who are users and sellers of other drugs. So there is more of a risk that a marijuana user will be exposed to and urged to try more drugs."[28] There is no evidence marijuana usage leads to subsequent abuse of other illicit drugs. However, if this is true then fully legalizing marijuana to allow the regulated sale of marijuana would decrease the chance that marijuana users would "be exposed to and urged to try more drugs."


The Drug Enforcement Agency has reported that marijuana sales and trafficking support violent street gangs and motorcycle gangs, including white supremacist gangs.[23][24][25] Proponents of fully decriminalizing marijuana to allow the regulated cultivation and sale of marijuana, including Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, argue fully decriminalizing marijuana would largely decrease financial gains earned by gangs from marijuana sales and trafficking

The Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) has claimed that marijuana leads to increased crime in the un-sourced pamphlet entitled "Speaking Out Against Drug Legalization."[41]

Making marijuana legally available to adults on more or less the same terms as alcohol would tend to reduce crime, certainly by greatly shrinking the illicit market and possibly by reducing alcohol consumption via substitution if smoking marijuana acts, on balance, as a substitute for drinking alcohol rather than a complement to it since drinking seems to have a greater tendency to unleash aggression than does cannabis use. ”

In 2004, a study by Scott Bates from the Boreal Economic Analysis & Research center entitled "The Economic Implications of Marijuana Legalization in Alaska," was prepared for Alaskans for Rights & Revenues. The study found there was no link between marijuana use and criminal behavior.[21]

this is enough for now, but in that website there are both views, to legalize and not to legalize. I suppose you can make your own judgements
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Old May 28, 2008, 12:00 PM   #9  
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excellent post. Keep on coming with the info, people have a right to know..

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) -- The spasms in her back and legs begin at night.
Half asleep, her twisting, jerking limbs rock her awake. There is
little Jeanelle Bluhm can do -- legally -- to relax the grip of
multiple sclerosis.

So every night, Bluhm draws her curtains, props herself up in a chair
and fires up a pipeful of the only thing that gives her relief -- marijuana.

"I don't care what has been proven," she said. "I only know what works
for me."

Bluhm, a 46-year-old former nurse who gets around her house in a
motorized scooter, helped gather signatures for a ballot initiative
that would legalize marijuana in Oregon for medical uses.

Opponents say illnesses will only become a ruse to allow the
widespread smoking of pot. They point to California's two-year medical
marijuana experience, where cannabis buyers clubs have sprouted up and
local ordinances allow patients under marijuana therapy to keep up to
1 1/2 pounds of pot.

But backers say they have learned their lessons from California, and
have drawn Oregon's measure to tightly control the amounts of
prescribed pot and ensure that it only goes to those who truly need
it.

"It's absurd that doctors can't prescribe this centuries-old
medication when they can legally prescribe morphine or cocaine," said
Rick Bayer, a Portland physician and chief petitioner who worked to
qualify the initiative for the November ballot.

Under Oregon's proposal, marijuana would only be allowed to treat a
limited number of illnesses, such as multiple sclerosis, cancer, AIDS
and glaucoma.

A letter of permission from a doctor would allow a patient to get an
identification card issued by the state Health Division. With the
card, a patient would have the right to carry up to an ounce of
marijuana and grow as many as three marijuana plants to maturity.

If the initiative is passed, Bayer estimates that about 500 people
would apply for an ID card in the first year.

A group called Oregonians Against Dangerous Drugs is putting up a
fight, arguing that the state is not equipped to deal with the
bureaucracy the law would create.

"It will make the policing of these marijuana laws extremely
difficult," said the head of the group, Multnomah County Sheriff Dan
Noelle. He warns voters to be wary of any initiative that is part of a
national effort by "people who have spent a lot of money trying to
legalize marijuana."

The measure is unusual in that it is being financed from entirely
outside the state. It is sponsored by the California-based Americans
for Medical Rights, which has the backing of billionaire
philanthropist George Soros of New York, insurance mogul Peter Lewis
of Cleveland, and John Sperling, founder and president of the
University of Phoenix.

The three men worked to persuade Californians to approve marijuana for
medical purposes two years ago. Arizona voters also approved a similar
measure in 1996, but it was blocked by the state's
legislature.

Oregon, Alaska, Colorado and Washington state are all considering
medical marijuana laws this year.

Dave Fratello, spokesman for Americans for Medical Rights, said
California's measure was written "more as a statement of principle
than a law," that included nothing about how marijuana would be
supplied. "We decided to write the laws more carefully in Oregon."

For Bluhm, who smokes marijuana twice a day -- once in the morning and
once at night -- the law would allow her to grow her own weed and give
her the peace of mind that it is pure and safe.

"The most frustrating thing I have had to deal with is the
bureaucracy," Bluhm said. "Why can't they be a little easier on the
disabled?"

Craig Helm, who also suffers from multiple sclerosis, was convicted of
two counts of felony possession and manufacture of marijuana in May,
after police raided his home and found eight marijuana plants.

Marijuana, he said, is the best way to calm the violent and painful
muscle spasms in his legs.

"I can't take another pill to make it stop -- that's when I smoke
marijuana," Helm said from his wheelchair.

Helm is on probation, but although he is under minimal supervision, he
still smokes marijuana.

"There are so many serious things going on," he said. "Are cops proud
of busting people like me?"

Copyright 1997 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
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Old May 28, 2008, 12:09 PM   #10  
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I agree, the last thing we need to do is arrest pot smokers. Seems so silly to me when there are so many SERIOUS crimes being ignored or people are being let out of prison because there isnt anymore room for them.

For medical pot, I thought it was legal? Is it, or is it really just hard to get a card? I am not an expert on this stuff, but it sure seems to me (not being an expert) there is something very wrong here.

I am not nieve to the fact that yes, when you know a pot seller, you may also know him/her for other drugs, so yes there are dangerous sides to this.
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