Hi guys! I have made some research on the forum, found lots of relevant information and I think it's time for me to try to reach the core of the members' thoughts about it.

Ok, pornography: is it a nearly harmless entertainment because we are mature enough to decide whether to have access to it?

I know most people, especially parents towards their teens, children, see porn a real danger, a taboo if I may say so.

I found that porn relieves sexual tension and stress, and it is used as a way to stay virgin for as long as possible.

Some of the arguments I found were:
Porn is easy to get addicted to
This in turn leads to broken relationships;
Interference with work & productivity
Compulsive sexual behaviour which can lead to illness & contradicted diseases
Depression/Suicidal thoughts and behaviours
Shame and self-hatred
Guilt and loss
Legal and financial troubles

I'm inviting everyone to comment, discuss on the theme! I hope all will turn out smoothly

Have a great day everyone!

PS: If you just joined the discussion, try reading the previous posts before stating something. It really gets annoying if we turn in circles forever.

asking

I thought this was funny. My son likes to troll, sometimes elaborately...He and his brother just made a funny movie this week and posted it anonymously, just to troll someone.

We'll see.

I think the post contributed, but it would be nice if you could tone down your descriptions of your sexual urges. We have all experienced the same or similar and don't need it explained with such urgency.

I had to look this up on Wikipedia.

Well from what I've been reading, the more you watch porn, the less you will be able to respect the women in your life, and the harder it will become to see them as completely human like you, especially if you are angry.

It's all very well for people to say that fantasy is not a crime and no one should be judged for what they think about, but what we think about and how we feel about that is really who we are.

So IMO we have to think about who we want to be and make choices accordingly.

Catsmine

Asking, that's an astounding amount of research. I'm very impressed. Did you find any studies regarding positive outcome non-aggresive material?

The reason I ask is that I don't want to be seen as defending the extreme forms that are admittedly out there. People will push everything too far, just to find out how far too far is. The slasher softcore in the "Halloween," "Friday the 13th," and "Saw" series of movies sound like they would fit the study as easily as the "Learning the Ropes" bondage series.

Where does the line get drawn? Penetration? Genitalia? Pubic hair? Buttocks? Breasts? Shoulders? Ankles? All of these were at one point or another considered scandalous.

Gemini54

I'm just reading through the various arguments and responses here, and I'm with Asking.

I sincerely believe that porn objectifies men and women, but particularly women. People argue that it objectifies men as much as it does women, but the problem is that the power relationship is not equal.

Ultimately it diminishes women in the same way that sexual repression used to because it is often misogynist and controlling in its depiction of women - the women are stereotypes, the acts formulaic.

Because men are the main consumers of porn, what are we to do with these depictions of women that seem to be less than real human beings? Many men are able to see past this fantasy and use porn for the visual stimulation that it provides. This thread clearly provides proof of that.

But. And it's a big but. Porn is much more mainstream and available now. Sex is a commodity to be bought and sold and many more people are involved in the industry. Vanilla porn is becoming 'boring' and porn producers are looking for new things to stimulate and titillate. Where will it all end, and how will it affect men's expectations of women in real life relationships?

It may be that I am just an old feminist from way back, but these are some of the questions I ask myself. Even this old feminist has watched a range of porn - from consensual sexual acts to things that you don't really want to know about.

Alty talked about Germany where sexuality is much more open - I have to say that some of the most horrendous, degrading and disgusting porn I have ever seen was made in Germany. Is it because it is more out in the open that the filmmakers need to go to greater lengths to shock or titillate the viewer?

Food for thought.

Unknown008

Hmm, yup, good points Gemini. Thanks for your input!

I'll be looking forward to the answers

Yes, because of the internet, porn is so easily accessible. With the modern mobile phones, people send clips from one to the other in so little time!

Catsmine

Gemini, do let me point out that the plain old "boring" vanilla porn is primarily what I have been advocating, in case that wasn't clear.

As far as objectifying, doesn't the industry objectify the entire act in order to merchandise it? Power relationships may have made women the first to become objects, but I think the process has moved well past that stage. Or are Chippendale's dancers available for the book club(sorry, had to get my smart-aleck points in)?

A word of warning - if you don't like the leather flavor of German material, stay far away from the Czech.

I agree the industry is pushing the boundaries. In about ten more years we'll see the Texas Chainsaw Hookers and Freddie Krueger does Dallas.

Unky, here's a couple of links you should also consider
Obscenity and Pornography: Behavioral Aspects - Evidence Concerning Behavioral Effects

Nasty Porn, Friendly Porn, and Antisocial Behavior

Unknown008

Thanks Cats! I'll have a look at them

Gemini54

Cats, I'm sorry, but the example of the Chippendale dancers doesn't wash. Just because some guys go to the book club in G strings doesn't make the power relationship between men and women equal. It's not.

Look at some of the really degrading porn. Who is the on receiving end of the degradation?

Even in the vanilla porn who is on the receiving end of the butt slaps, the multiple penetrations, the come shots etc?

I was trying, in my rather inarticulate way, to ask where is it all leading? And how is it affecting our attitudes in general towards sexuality and women?

asking

I totally agree with Gemini. I have not been able to contribute more because of an, ahem, job obligation.
I am reading though!

Well, one thought I've been having. When humans (and other animals) learn, we do some of that by association. So, classically, dogs who heard a bell every time they got fed, "learned" to salivate every time they heard the bell, because they associated that with meal time.

In the same way, pornography that emphasizes the humiliation of women teaches both men and women to associate the mistreatment of women with orgasms and pleasure generally. As I pointed out before, studies have shown that men who view pornography lose their inhibition to the idea of rape and are more likely to express anger toward women. I'm guessing it feels good to view women that way, it's just a little closer to having an orgasm. Mistreating women is the equivalent of salivating before a meal. (Just my idea.)

None of the studies I cited were done on women, but I would be amazed if viewing such pornography did not affect women's view of themselves negatively as well, by similar association.

asking

Catsmine

That is a very cogent point Gemini. These could also be used as examples of the industry pushing the boundaries, or how far they have already pushed them, but the "receiving end" remains the same.

Asking, unless you presuppose that all explicit sex depictions humiliate women, which I think is what Gemini is trying to say, you are generalizing from some very specific studies that don't support that premise.

All I am trying to say here, besides sparking debate to give Unky more material for his, is that explicit sex does not have to be rape or power exchange or sadomasochistic.

My favorite scene has a nice looking guy and girl and he proposes to her. She asks if he'll get better looking and he responds that he'll try. She accepts and they make love. Scintillating dialog, I know, but where's any degradation?

By the way, the Chippendale's thing was supposed to be facetious.

Gemini54

Hi cat, that's not what i was trying to say. I was actually saying that the industry is pushing the boundaries so that a lot of the sexual acts depicted are degrading to women. I don't have a problem with explicit, I have concerns about where the industry is heading and the trickle through effect to women in society.

Some of the best sex scenes and most erotic are explicit and they simply depict two people making love, having sex. I have to say that I prefer to watch explicit sex in movies rather than in porn these days - give me a French or Italian film any day!