Hi,
I have an interesting question for your consideration and opinions. But first, here is a little history of the Boy Scouts of America.

Scouting began in England in 1907-08, created by General Robert Baden-Powell. B-P, a 50-year old bachelor at the time, and was one of the few heroes to come out of Britain's Boer War.
The Boy Scouts of America (which also uses the name Scouting/USA) was founded by Chicago publisher William Boyce on February 8, 1910.

The Boy Scout Oath is:
On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

"A federal judge ruled that the Pentagon can no longer spend money to prepare a Virginia military base for use by a national quadrennial Boy Scout jamboree that attracts 40,000 Scouts and leaders, plus 300,000 parents and spectators. Although the jamboree is a 25-year-old institution, the ACLU persuaded an activist judge to ban it in the future because the Boy Scouts pledge to do their duty to God and country."

The above quoted from: http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/2005/s...psrsept05.html

This is just one of many examples of the work of the ACLU.
Do you agree, or disagree, that the Boy Scouts not be allowed to have their National Jamboree on a military base because they pledge to do their duty to "God"?

ScottGem

This quote shows the spin that was used to demonize the court's actions. The judge said ONLY that the military budget could not be used. This is consistent with Separation of Church and State. But the article goes on to claim that the ACLU got it banned in the future. That is spewing misinformation. There is no ban on the jamborees, just a ban against having it on a military base and using military funds to support it.

By the way, I am a former scout and scoutleader. However, I am disgusted with the BSA's intolerance toward certain life styles. In my view, the BSA is paying the price for that intolerance.

Scott<>

Fr_Chuck

It is so important that the scouts keep the moral values and ethics that they are so well known for. They are a great group.

And the real problem is that most soliders hold the same concepts.
Now perhaps a military budget should not be used for the event, but I am sure the scouts and/or the military personal privately could raise the funds.

But you are right, this is a very good case of extreme activist judges not ruling on law, but ruling on personal prejustices and bias. Because of the scouts moral values and faith, they are a target for thoses that dispise such values.

I would say that those who just don't like the group, and wish to have a group that would be accepting of lower values and morals, should start thier own groups. There are within certain churches, groups of youth based on simular systems but working outside the scouts because they are even more strict on teachings and values.

But too many people ( often without chidren or even an interst in the scouts) merely prefer to attack a group that has been effective as they are for years. They don't want to work at making a group better, or work within a groups guildelines, but prefer to destroy. If they would start a group and it is really that much better, guess what they would take over all the kids over time. Guess destroying something good is just easier.

fredg

HI,
Thank you for your opinions.
The one about being "disgusted" with the Boy Scouts due to intolerance toward certain lifestyles is indicative of some's feelings. I applaud the Boy Scouts of America for "sticking to their guns", of sticking with their morals and beliefs. Certain lifestyles are trying to become the "norm", by allowing actions that have never been allowed before.
Changing American morals and values because of any minority groups will, as I have often stated, be closely examined by the majority of the American public. Hats off to the Boy Scouts.
Destroying "something good" is the goal of most of this, meaning destroying traditional beliefs. Not allowing the word "God" to be used in an oath on public property (such as a military base) is the work of these minorities.

ScottGem

Nope, wrong again. The doctrine of separation of church and state is sufficient legal justification for this ruling.



The paradox here is that the values that the Scouts have promoted all these years are what they themselves are turning their backs on. As a scout I was taught brotherhood, I was taught to respect other people's beliefs and to applaud diversity. I was taught tolerance of people who were different then I.

Yet when a scout who clearly embodied all these values they promote, a scout who had attained the highest honors offered by the organization acknowleged his biological imperative and admitted his homosexuality, this organization turned intolerant and expelled him. For no other reason then his sexuality. That was what turned many people against the organization. That's when schools and other public places started refusing to provide space for them. Note, that the Girl Scouts, an organization with similar values, morals and ethics was not treated similarly.

I won't get into a debate about homsexuality.

Scott<>

NeedKarma

I find it quite sad that the ACLU is doing that. I see why they are but the scouts promote the development of good skills and values in children. My kid will probably get involved in the scouts and fake the allegiance to God - just like the majority of part-time christians.

fredg

Hi,
Thank you, NeedKarma, for your post.
I do wish your child the very best in the Boy Scouts. Who knows? Maybe he will get to know what the oath really means, including the beliefs in all of it.

NeedKarma

You're welcome. We 're open to all sorts of things. If he decides that he wants to be a regular church goer then I'm behind him all the way.

ScottGem

What the oath really means:
The Meaning of the Boy Scout Oath
Excerpted from page 45-46, Boy Scout Handbook, 11th ed,
(#33105), copyright 1998 by BSA, ISBN 0-8395-3105-2
and from page 420-421, Webelos Scout Book, 1998 edition,
(#33108), copyright 1998 by BSA, ISBN 0-8395-3108-7
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Before you pledge yourself to any oath or promise, you must know what it means. The paragraphs that follow will help you understand the meaning of the Scout Oath.
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On my honor . . .
By giving your word, you are promising to be guided by the ideals of the Scout Oath.
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. . . I will do my best . . .
Try hard to live up to the points of the Scout Oath. Measure your achievements against your own high standards and don't be influenced by peer pressure or what other people do.
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. . . To do my duty to God . . .
Your family and religious leaders teach you about God and the ways you can serve. You do your duty to God by following the wisdom of those teachings every day and by respecting and defending the rights of others to practice their own beliefs.
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. . . and my country . . .
Help keep the United States a strong and fair nation by learning about our system of government and your responsibilities as a citizen and future voter.

America is made up of countless families and communities. When you work to improve your community and your home, you are serving your country. Natural resources are another important part of America's heritage worthy of your efforts to understand, protect, and use wisely. What you do can make a real difference.
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. . . and to obey the Scout Law; . . .
The twelve points of the Scout Law are guidelines that can lead you toward wise choices. When you obey the Scout Law, other people will respect you for the way you live, and you will respect yourself.
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. . . To help other people at all times; . . .
There are many people who need you. Your cheerful smile and helping hand will ease the burden of many who need assistance. By helping out whenever possible, you are doing your part to make this a better world.
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. . . To keep myself physically strong, . . .
Take care of your body so that it will serve you well for an entire lifetime. That means eating nutritious foods, getting enough sleep, and exercising regularly to build strength and endurance. it also means avoiding harmful drugs, alcohol, tobacco, and anything else that can harm your health.
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. . . mentally awake, . . .
Develop your mind both in the classroom and outside of school. Be curious about everything around you, and work hard to make the most of your abilities. With an inquiring attitude and the willingness to ask questions, you can learn much about the exciting world around you and your role in it.
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. . . and morally straight.
To be a person of strong character, your relationships with others should be honest and open. You should respect and defend the rights of all people. Be clean in your speech and actions, and remain faithful in your religious beliefs. The values you practice as a Scout will help you shape a life of virtue and self-reliance.
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Lets take a look at some of the points here:
-Measure your achievements against your own high standards and don't be influenced by peer pressure or what other people do.
-by respecting and defending the rights of others to practice their own beliefs.
-With an inquiring attitude and the willingness to ask questions, you can learn much about the exciting world around you and your role in it.
-You should respect and defend the rights of all people.

I believe in what this oath says. And it sickens me that, as I pointed out, the organization has corrupted this oath by their own intolerance.

Scott<>

ScottGem

I don't see a need to "fake" an allegiance to God unless one is an atheist or maybe an agnostic. Anyone else would seem to have a belief in some god. Of course, there might be someone who may believe in a god but doesn't want to pledge allegiance to them. I guess they would have to fake it.

::taking tongue out of cheek::

Scott<>