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shoegal · Aug 11, 2009, 10:15 PM

Hello
I have a question... If an 18 year old hosts an underage drinking party, with alcohol provided by an adult, and a party guest leaves the party with another guest, and gets in a car accident, could the host be liable? One guest was killed, another injured. Also, the driver brought their own alcohol to the party.

passmeby · Aug 11, 2009, 11:06 PM

Oh wow. This is huge. There are many things the adult in charge will be facing... criminal charges, including negligence (not supervising the kids well enough/not stopping the drinking), purchasing alcohol for the underage, possibly some kind of criminal charge for the death and injury to the kids and more. Not to mention the adult in charge can and probably will be sued in a civil case for the dead teen and for the injured teen. Remember OJ? He got off on the murder charge but was found guilty in a civil case and is ordered to pay money to the victims family. This adult could stand to lose everything he/she owns including her freeedom.

That's just to give you a basic idea, but there are some very smart, sharp legal helpers here who will be able to offer yiou much more information.

This is a very serious situation. I doubt the cops are going to be able to or care to discern whose alcohol the teen was drinking, I think it will be presumed to be the adult who provided the alcohol and who was supposed to be in charge being responsible for the safety of the kids to be completely at fault. OMG, BIG TROUBLE! WOW.

I know from being a bartender that if I serve someone one too many drinks and he gets in an accident and kills someone, I get charged with a crime (some form of a murder/manslaughter charge, not sure) and the bar can get shut down or lose their license. It's no joke.

I was invited once to go to a party where everyone was underage except myself and my husband and they had bought their own alcohol, but I knew that being the only legal adults there, if the cops showed up WE would be the ones going to jail for these kiids even though they bought the booze. Well, of course I refused. That's a very stupid thing to do and now someone is dead over it. What a shame.

JudyKayTee · Aug 12, 2009, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by shoegal

Hello
I have a question...If an 18 year old hosts an underage drinking party, with alcohol provided by an adult, and a party guest leaves the party with another guest, and gets in a car accident, could the host be liable? One guest was killed, another injured. Also, the driver brought their own alcohol to the party.

I don't know where you are. I can address NY, which is where I investigate accidents.

If the 18 year old lives with his/her parents, yes, the parents are liable if alcohol is involved, whether they provided it. The host, of course, is also liable.

If the 18 year old lives alone (college dorm, apartment) then the parents are NOT liable.

The person who brought the alcohol to the party is also liable.

Is this a real "case?" It sounds like it.

JudyKayTee · Aug 12, 2009, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by passmeby

This is a very serious situation. I doubt the cops are going to be able to or care to discern whose alcohol the teen was drinking, I think it will be presumed to be the adult who provided the alcohol and who ws supposed to be in charge being responsible for the safety of the kids to be completely at fault. OMG, BIG TROUBLE!! WOW..

This is incorrect. Speaking only for NY I absolutely spend hours and hours tracking down the provider of the alcohol when underage drinking is involved. The Police do the same thing. I have spent (literally) days walking in someone's footsteps attempting to determine how the alcohol came to be at the party.

There is zero tolerance for this type of thing in NY.

The "Cops" ARE going to care and most likely ARE going to play "let's make a deal." People can't wait to give up information to keep their own tails out of trouble.

passmeby · Aug 12, 2009, 08:17 PM

Well, Judy, naturally you disagree. I think you're wrong. The OP says that these kids were at a party where an adult bought alcohol for the kids to drink. That adult was responsible for the kids being on her property, she should've been watching them, she shouldn't have provided a single drop of alcohol and the OP admits that the adult bought alcohol for underage kids. There's no real need to trace steps to find out where the alcohol came from when we're talking about a group of teens at a party drinking alcohol provided by the adult in charge. The adult here let the kids drink and she knew all about it. I don't think it matters one bit if the kid brought his own alcohol or not, in fact I tend to disbelieve that statement. Why would a teen bring his own alcohol to a perty where there is already free alcohol being provided? It doesn't make an ounce of sense, and it sounds like an afterthought to keep the offending adult out of trouble. I can see right through that!

Besides, how on Earth would anyone be able to prove without a doubt whose alcohol the kid drank, AND that he didn't drink any of the provided alcohol... there's NO way to prove that?! I doubt he can/will produce a receipt! I doubt his parents bought it for him, but if they did and they admit to it then they're in trouble. But that doesn't mean that the other adult is off the hook by any means.

The OP doesn't say who was killed and who was injured, so that info would be helpful to know. Was the guy who BYOB'd the one who died or the one who got injured?

Another point, the OP says an 18 yr old HOSTED the party, not that all the guests were 18. Who knows, some guests might've been 13. This adult that provided the booze should be punished severely. My God, someone was killed! How many people could've died that night?

I really think the OP is fibbing about the kid bringing his own alcohol to avoid getting in trouble. There's really too much left out to really make a perfect answer to this question, but at any rate the adult that provided the alcohol is going to be in a world of trouble regardless.

There doesn't sound like there is a lack of witnesses here, so I don't think the cops will have much trouble pinning it on the right person. Plus someone died and another was injured, people are going to come forward, and ALL the kids families are no doubt enraged that this happened. The truth will come out in this case for certain, there's no way this will go rightfully unpunished.

JudyKayTee · Aug 13, 2009, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by passmeby

Well, Judy, naturally you disagree. I think you're wrong. The OP says that these kids were at a party where an adult bought alcohol for the kids to drink. That adult was responsible for the kids being on her property, she should've been watching them, she shouldn't have provided a single drop of alcohol and the OP admits that the adult bought alcohol for underage kids. There's no real need to trace steps to find out where the alcohol came from when we're talking about a group of teens at a party drinking alcohol provided by the adult in charge. The adult here let the kids drink and she knew all about it. I don't think it matters one bit if the kid brought his own alcohol or not, in fact I tend to disbelieve that statement. Why would a teen bring his own alcohol to a perty where there is already free alcohol being provided? It doesn't make an ounce of sense, and it sounds like an afterthought to keep the offending adult out of trouble. I can see right thru that!!

Besides, how on Earth would anyone be able to prove without a doubt whose alcohol the kid drank, AND that he didn't drink any of the provided alcohol.....there's NO way to prove that?!!? I doubt he can/will produce a reciept!! I doubt his parents bought it for him, but if they did and they admit to it then they're in trouble. But that doesn't mean that the other adult is off the hook by any means.

The OP doesn't say who was killed and who was injured, so that info would be helpful to know. Was the guy who BYOB'd the one who died or the one who got injured?

Another point, the OP says an 18 yr old HOSTED the party, not that all the guests were 18. Who knows, some guests might've been 13. This adult that provided the booze should be punished severely. My God, someone was killed!! How many people could've died that night?

I really think the OP is fibbing about the kid bringing his own alcohol to avoid getting in trouble. There's really too much left out to really make a perfect answer to this question, but at any rate the adult that provided the alcohol is going to be in a world of trouble regardless.

There doesn't sound like there is a lack of witnesses here, so I don't think the cops will have much trouble pinning it on the right person. Plus someone died and another was injured, people are going to come forward, and ALL the kids families are no doubt enraged that this happened. The truth will come out in this case for certain, there's no way this will go rightfully unpunished.

You are wrong about me disagreeing with you - I disagree with you because you are a bartender giving incorrect legal advice and I am a liability investigator, working in the field.

I don't really much care that you think the OP is fibbing about the kid bringing his own alcohol - we aren't mind readers. The practice here is to answer the question as it is posted and not try to read information which is NOT posted it into the question.

Concerning "no real need to trace steps to find out where the alcohol came from when we're talking about a group of teens at a party drinking alcohol provided by the adult in charge" - you are totally incorrect. Again, this is the work that I do and I have no idea where you get your experience from.

As far as your dramatic " My God, someone was killed!! How many people could've died that night?" - I investigate what DID happen, not what COULD have happened. That's not how the law works. "What if" is neither a violation OR a defense.

There's no way this will go rightfully unpunished? Welcome to the surprises in the US Court system.

cal823 · Aug 13, 2009, 05:57 AM

We have similar laws here in Australia. The adult in charge of the party has duty of care towards any underage person allowed onto their premises I believe, and when it comes to alcohol/substances, if they die in a car crash, it is your liability.
My advice to anyone having a party, especially with underage people, is not to allow people to drink drive under any circumstances. Just forbid it as a condition of being allowed on the premises.
Permit and encourage people to stay over the night and drive of in the morning when they are sober.
Provide food and non alcoholic drinks.
Make sure they understand that alcohol is optional.
Do not tolerate guests doing anything you wouldn't want your kids to be doing, because if they are underage guests, you are just as responsible for them as you are your own kids.

JudyKayTee · Aug 13, 2009, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by cal823

We have similar laws here in Australia. The adult in charge of the party has duty of care towards any underage person allowed onto their premises I believe, and when it comes to alcohol/substances, if they die in a car crash, it is your liability.
My advice to anyone having a party, especially with underage people, is not to allow people to drink drive under any circumstances. Just forbid it as a condition of being allowed on the premises.
Permit and encourage people to stay over the night and drive of in the morning when they are sober.
Provide food and non alcoholic drinks.
Make sure they understand that alochol is optional.
Do not tolerate guests doing anything you wouldnt want your kids to be doing, because if they are underage guests, you are just as responsible for them as you are your own kids.

I agree with you in all except the "my advice to anyone having a party, especially with underage people, is not to allow people to drink drive under any circumstances."

It is, in fact, illegal to supply alcohol to underage people, even if there is no accident. One underage person arrives home and parents realize he/she has consumed alcohol and the homeowner (at least in the US) can be arrested.

cal823 · Aug 13, 2009, 06:04 AM

I forgot to mention the words BYO.
I am 17 (turning 18 in a few days). And I drink at parties.
Yes, its illegal.
I know and understand the risks, as my parents made sure to fully educate me in this matter.
On the party advice, I also forgot to say
"If you feel you must go against what is legal and host a parting at which you permit alcohol consumption anyway".
I in No way condone or encourage other underage people to drink.
Sorry for any confusion.

JudyKayTee · Aug 13, 2009, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by cal823

I forgot to mention the words BYO.
I am 17 (turning 18 in a few days). And I drink at parties.
Yes, its illegal.
I know and understand the risks, as my parents made sure to fully educate me in this matter.
On the party advice, I also forgot to say
"If you feel you must go against what is legal and host a parting at which you permit alcohol consumption anyway".
I in No way condone or encourage other underage people to drink.
Sorry for any confusion.

This site does not encourage anyone to break the law nor does it provide info on how to circumvent the law.

If you do drink illegally with the consent of your parents, I also question their judgment.

J_9 · Aug 13, 2009, 06:39 AM

Please, do not turn this into a p1ssing match. Let's keep on topic. ;)

cal823 · Aug 13, 2009, 06:40 AM

My opinions are my own and not those of this website.
P.S. my parents introduced me to alcohol in the form of a sip of wine or champagne each new years for the last couple of years, and permit me to drink at my age under controlled circumstances. They believe it important that I learn about alcohol before I turn 18, so that when I do turn 18, I don't just go and get smashed and out of control suddenly like some people do. They also know that with the way young culture is these days, I would be exposed to alcohol and drinking anyway, and that it is better that they be the ones who get there first, and through allowing me the latitude with their conditions on it enabling them to supervise me when I do it, instead of me doing it behind their backs which could be dangerous.

Also, I agree with J_9, this is very off topic. The question was from a legal standpoint. I wouldn't have posted if it wasn't for my feeling that the person in question could benefit from knowing ways to minimise possible damage from drinking at parties via sleepovers/food/etc.
Looking back, I probably should have kept my mouth shut and not posted.

JudyKayTee · Aug 13, 2009, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by J_9

Please, do not turn this into a p1ssing match. Let's keep on topic. ;)

- Sorry.

ScottGem · Aug 13, 2009, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by passmeby

The OP says that these kids were at a party where an adult bought alcohol for the kids to drink. That adult was responsible for the kids being on her property, she should've been watching them,

Not every state has social drinking laws like NYS has. So there could be an issue depending on the OP's location.

If that location has laws that govern providing alcohol to someone underage, then both the party host and the adult that provided the alcohol are in deep trouble. By the way, there is no indication that the adult was actually at the party or involved in the property where the party was held. Though that wouldn't matter in a prosecution of the incident.

Even if the driver did, in fact, bring their own bottle, the fact that the 18 year old provided a venue where alcohol was available would mitigate that fact.

Under NYS law, the party host and the supplier of the alcohol, could be criminally prosecuted. The owner of the property might also be subject to prosecution if it can be proven they were aware of the party.

Even if not criminally prosecuted, they would be open to civil suits, though the lack of a criminal prosecution could hamper that case.