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Ultra Member
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Jan 8, 2013, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by talaniman
This is the rest of what Stark said,
Which makes my point even better...
... said in his opening remarks at the bill markup session that he agrees with the Republicans on Ways and Means that the IPAB provision is a bad provision.
"Remember, the House included no similar provision in our health reform bill," Stark said.
PPACA is the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act
Yes I know, another of those things Dems do that say one thing and mean the opposite.
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Junior Member
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Jan 10, 2013, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Why not? You do have bad managers don't you? Just like the UK has bad journalists and Q.C's who mount bad arguments. Let's have a look at a couple of things.
Tom Kark QC counsel to the inquiry, reportedly described Sir David's attitude as "very dangerous" and said his assumption that other failing hospitals would have been identified by demonstrably failings systems was "naive".
"Would have been identified", except for what? Perhaps Identifiable by doing a bit of question begging?
"Sir David a former Communist Party member, was installed as chief executive of the NHS.............." May as well throw in an an ad hominem while we are at it. This of course has absolutely noting to do with his outcomes (good or bad) as a manager.
Between 400 and 1,200 patients died because a catalogue of failings? That is a X 3 possibility difference Sounds serious enough to be able to pint point the failings and to come up with a fairly specific number. One would have though so anyway.
Shall I go on?
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Ultra Member
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Jan 10, 2013, 04:58 AM
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No
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Ultra Member
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Jan 10, 2013, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Tuttyd
Why not? You do have bad managers don't you? Just like the UK has bad journalists and Q.C's who mount bad arguments. Let's have a look at a couple of things.
Tom Kark QC counsel to the inquiry, reportedly described Sir David's attitude as "very dangerous" and said his assumption that other failing hospitals would have been identified by demonstrably failings systems was "naive".
"Would have been identified", except for what? Perhaps Identifiable by doing a bit of question begging?
"Sir David a former Communist Party member, was installed as chief executive of the NHS.............." May as well throw in an an ad hominem while we are at it. This of course has absolutely noting to do with his outcomes (good or bad) as a manager.
Between 400 and 1,200 patients died because a catalogue of failings? That is a X 3 possibility difference Sounds serious enough to be able to pint point the failings and to come up with a fairly specific number. One would have though so anyway.
Shall I go on?
Not sure how noting the fact he is a "former Communist Party member" is an ad hominem. Now if he would have said "Sir David, an inept, raging wacko former Communist Party member" I'd call that an ad hominem. Regardless, I'm sure that all those dying needlessly would have felt much having known it was just bad management.
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Ultra Member
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Jan 10, 2013, 01:07 PM
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Former communist party members have a perpensity to seek particular solutions which involve aggregating resources under central control
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Expert
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Jan 10, 2013, 01:42 PM
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So what? Capitalist do the same thing except they are the central place.
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Ultra Member
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Jan 10, 2013, 01:49 PM
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No quite the same thing Tal, socialists don't think of a capitalist solution, they think in terms of big projects involving bureaucracy, capitalists think in terms of minimilisation and profits
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Junior Member
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Jan 10, 2013, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Not sure how noting the fact he is a "former Communist Party member" is an ad hominem. Now if he would have said "Sir David, an inept, raging wacko former Communist Party member" I'd call that an ad hominem. Regardless, I'm sure that all those dying needlessly would have felt much having known it was just bad management.
Would they have felt better if he was a former member of the Tory Party?
It would be an ad hominem because of the implications being a member of the Communist Party carries. So it would be an ad hominem by implication.
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Junior Member
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Jan 10, 2013, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by paraclete
former communist party members have a perpensity to seek particular solutions which involve aggregating resources under central control
Good point. So it is actually possible that if an adhominem may be justified on the basis that the initial implication is carried through to a conclusion.
If I were to launch an attack on a political leader because they are an atheist and therefore not qualified to run a country, that would be an ad hominem attack. If they starting banning churches, then it would be possible to say my criticisms were justified.
However, as far as the article in the British Telegraph is concerned this is not justified. The information provided suggests Sir David in his job has actually been promoting the opposite of a strong centralized bureaucratic system. Wanting to establish the hospital as a foundation trust means he was pushing for a devolution of the decision making process.
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Expert
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Jan 10, 2013, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by paraclete
No quite the same thing Tal, socialists don't think of a capitalist solution, they think in terms of big projects involving bureaucracy, capitalists think in terms of minimilisation and profits
Naw those are republicans. They are the slaves of the capitalist.
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Ultra Member
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Jan 10, 2013, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuttyd
Would they have felt better if he was a former member of the Tory Party?
It would be an ad hominem because of the implications being a member of the Communist Party carries. So it would be an ad hominem by implication.
Like calling Obama a liberal?
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Ultra Member
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Jan 10, 2013, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Like calling Obama a liberal?
But Obama is not a liberal he is a democrat
Classical liberalism, a political ideology that advocates unregulated markets, limited government, rule of law, due process, and individual liberties including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and others
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