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mullucan · Jun 25, 2009, 07:53 AM

HI I hope one of you all know the answer to this? I lost my job and I need food for my children,I have one that has been on ssi since he was 3yrs he is 16 now.I tried to get foodstamps,the called to day and told me, I have a 401K from work and they will not give me any. SSI has never held that against before as an asset HELP my kids need food

stevetcg · Jun 25, 2009, 08:20 AM

So you HAVE money but now you want the rest of us (taxpayers) to feed your kids? Pretty sure that's not how it works.

If your kids need food, take money out of your 401k.

EDIT: I have since been corrected. Please disregard the factual part of this post. My opinion on the matter remains.

ScottGem · Jun 25, 2009, 08:20 AM

Go back to them and ask them to show you the rule that says you can't have a 401(k) balance. Even better go to the office and ask them to show you this rule. When they hem and haw or try to deflect show them the printout from these two sites:
Eligibility
Retirement (Pension) Plans

Thoose are the official government web sites for the food stamp program. The first site specially states: "
Households may have $2,000 in countable resources, such as a bank account, or $3000 in countable resources if at least one person is age 60 or older, or is disabled. However, certain resources are NOT counted, such as... and most retirement (pension) plans."

The second site lists a 401(k) as an excludable pension plan. Boy would I like to be there when you shove those printouts in their faces! :D

stevetcg · Jun 25, 2009, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by stevetcg

So you HAVE money but now you want the rest of us (taxpayers) to feed your kids? Pretty sure thats not how it works.

If your kids need food, take money out of your 401k.

Ok - so it IS how it works. IMO, it shouldn't. You have money... stop taking mine.

ScottGem · Jun 25, 2009, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by stevetcg

So you HAVE money but now you want the rest of us (taxpayers) to feed your kids? Pretty sure thats not how it works.

If your kids need food, take money out of your 401k.

Sorry Steve, but I VEHEMENTLY disagree with you here. In fact, that IS how it works as the links I posted show. Taking out money from the 401(k) will be a hardship to the OP with penalities and taxation. And even if she does do that, what happens when she has to retire and no longer has enough to fund her retirement? So she goes on the dole then?

Frankly, I was tempted to give you a reddie here since your answer is inaccurate, but my respect for you and the help you have given here prevented me.

stevetcg · Jun 25, 2009, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

Sorry Steve, but I VEHEMENTLY disagree with you here. In fact, that IS how it works as the links I posted show. Taking out money from the 401(k) will be a hardship to the OP with penalities and taxation. And even if she does do that, what happens when she has to retire and no longer has enough to fund her retirement? So she goes on the dole then?

Frankly, I was tempted to give you a reddie here since your answer is inaccurate, but my respect for you and the help you have given here prevented me.

Its OK - reddie me for the accuracy of my information. Wrong is wrong. My opinion on the matter stands though.

ScottGem · Jun 25, 2009, 08:30 AM

So you are against ANY form of public assistance whatsoever?

stevetcg · Jun 25, 2009, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

So you are against ANY form of public assistance whatsoever?

Of course not. Im against public assistance for those who don't need it.

401k is an issue that I have. If someone can voluntarily take a disbursement or loan from their 401k *for just about anything they want* why should they be allowed to take additional taxpayer money because they don't want to?

SUre, they have to pay taxes on it. Its income... of course they do. Its still their money.

I had to dip into my long term savings a few years ago because of the loss of my job. I cashed in 401k and IRAs. No one cared then and I sure as heck don't care if people do now.

Now if that money is gone... sure... more power to those people that NEED assistance. Im sorry for them and am happy that they can get the help that they need. Its tax money well spent. But to spend money on people that don't want to use their savings... and that IS what 401k is... well... I am against that.

excon · Jun 25, 2009, 08:46 AM

Hello Steve:

Every day Keith Olbermann calls out three people as the bad, worse than that, and finally, "the worst person in the world". I LOVE that part of his show.

Yesterday he called out a lady congressman who voted against school lunches during the summer. She said that hunger was a good motivator for kids to get jobs... I think she qualifies for the worst...

IF we offer a safety net to those who are unable to help themselves, and we do, wouldn't kids be on that list? Sure they would. So, it doesn't matter that this woman is selfish or not, or whether from a political standpoint, giving away food creates a moral hazard or not, as a nation we should INSURE that our children are taken care of - EVEN if the parent is unable or unwilling to do so.

The cool thing is, the laws ARE designed that way. You just don't like it.

excon

ScottGem · Jun 25, 2009, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by stevetcg

Of course not. Im against public assistance for those who dont need it.

401k is an issue that I have. If someone can voluntarily take a disbursement or loan from their 401k *for just about anything they want* why should they be allowed to take additional taxpayer money because they don't want to?

SUre, they have to pay taxes on it. Its income... of course they do. Its still their money.

I had to dip into my long term savings a few years ago because of the loss of my job. I cashed in 401k and IRAs. No one cared then and I sure as heck dont care if people do now.

That you chose to tap your retirement savings was your choice. Not everyone can or should make that choice.

stevetcg · Jun 25, 2009, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

That you chose to tap your retirement savings was your choice. Not everyone can or should make that choice.

And tapping into her savings is her choice. Sometimes choices are tough. But you do what you have to do.

I chose to send my kids to private school. The public schools here do not get enough funding because the money is being spend elsewhere. I would venture to guess that some of it is being spent on supporting people that, and I say this with great emphasis, *do not need help*. This is a choice that I didn't want to have to make... but you do what you have to do. My issue is that this is something I feel I have to do because my tax money is going to support someone else's kids... who don't *need* it.

So in essence, I choose to put less money into MY 401k so the poster doesn't have to take money out of HERS.

Fair?

mullucan · Jun 26, 2009, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

Go back to them and ask them to show you the rule that says you can't have a 401(k) balance. Even better go to the office and ask them to show you this rule. When they hem and haw or try to deflect show them the printout from these two sites:
Eligibility
Retirement (Pension) Plans

Thoose are the official government web sites for the food stamp program. The first site specially states: "
Households may have $2,000 in countable resources, such as a bank account, or $3000 in countable resources if at least one person is age 60 or older, or is disabled. However, certain resources are NOT counted, such as ... and most retirement (pension) plans."

The second site lists a 401(k) as an excludable pension plan. Boy would I like to be there when you shove those printouts in their faces! :D

Thank you scott.The cite said I could ask a expert,I do not like the answer from steve,I hope one day he has to see reality the way others see it,I am far from welfare trash,I would not know how to play!! But I have spent from age 14 to 47yrs with out ,and with not having a job.I am looking for and answer,I will cash in my 401K .So steve can keep his kid in a good school.But he better start saving now to take care of the kid, there hole life AND NEVER ASK FOR HELP.STEVE IS A VERY MEAN MAN SO I WILL CLOSE MY ACCOUNT Because I FELL BAD ENOUGH NOT WORKING I DO NOT NEED TO FELL LIKE I AM TAKING FROM PEOPLE LIKE STEVE

JudyKayTee · Jun 26, 2009, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by mullucan

Thank you scott.The cite said I could ask a expert,I do not like the answer from steve,I hope one day he has to see reality the way others see it,I am far from welfare trash,I would not know how to play!!! But I have spent from age 14 to 47yrs with out ,and with not having a job.I am looking for and answer,I will cash in my 401K .So steve can keep his kid in a good school.But he better start saving now to take care of the kid, there hole life AND NEVER ASK FOR HELP.STEVE IS A VERY MEAN MAN SO I WILL CLOSE MY ACCOUNT BECUSE I FELL BAD ENOUGH NOT WORKING I DO NOT NEED TO FELL LIKE I AM TAKING FROM PEOPLE LIKE STEVE

It's not my job to defend Steve - but I think I'm going to, anyway. He is entitled to his opinion. You are entitled to yours. I don't think having an opinion, giving an opinion, is being "mean."

You can't close your account - you just stop posting. That's how it works.

You don't want to feel like you're taking from people - but what do you think food stamps are if not public assistance?

I have mixed feelings on the subject, personally. I think savings should have be used before anyone can receive public assistance because I'm in NY and the welfare system is an overwhelming expense. I can't build money up in my savings account (and 401-K) when I'm paying high taxes and those high taxes are being used so someone else CAN maintain a 401-K? Doesn't make sense to me.

I see both sides of this but you are incorrect in your opinion of who can answer you and what they can say. If the only help you want is help that agrees with you, talk to your best friend.

stevetcg · Jun 26, 2009, 07:50 AM

If me being more concerned about my kids education than your 401k savings makes me a mean person, I guess I am a mean person.

Incidentally, its not just my kids education, its all kids. And assistance for people that actually need it. And sufficient pay for our service members to live above the poverty line. And generally support for people that Don't have 401k plans and actually need help.

ScottGem · Jun 26, 2009, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by mullucan

Thank you scott.The cite said I could ask a expert,I do not like the answer from steve,I hope one day he has to see reality the way others see it,I am far from welfare trash,I would not know how to play!!! But I have spent from age 14 to 47yrs with out ,and with not having a job.I am looking for and answer,I will cash in my 401K .So steve can keep his kid in a good school.But he better start saving now to take care of the kid, there hole life AND NEVER ASK FOR HELP.STEVE IS A VERY MEAN MAN SO I WILL CLOSE MY ACCOUNT BECUSE I FELL BAD ENOUGH NOT WORKING I DO NOT NEED TO FELL LIKE I AM TAKING FROM PEOPLE LIKE STEVE

First, I think you are a bit offbase here. Steve's answer was wrong and he acknowledged that. But he is entitled to his opinion whether you like the answer or not. I'm sure he is not the only one with that opinion This site does allow you to ask for an expert's advice. It does not guarantee you will like the answer. Many times, the correct or best answer is not what the asker wants to hear.

Since the law allows you to exclude 401(k) balances from eligible resources, then you should not feel embarrassed to make use of the resources provided you as long as you are eligible. I don't think you should cash out your 401(k) except as a very last resort.

Please do as I suggested and take those printouts to the office that administers the plan in your area. Remember you paid taxes while you were working and this is your chance to get a return on that.

ScottGem · Jun 26, 2009, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by stevetcg

Incidentally, its not just my kids education, its all kids. And assistance for people that actually need it.

There is another aspect to this that I don't think you are considering. I mentioned it in my last response to the OP; "Remember you paid taxes while you were working and this is your chance to get a return on that." Don't you think that's fair? We aren't talking about someone who has always been on the dole, but someone who has contributed to the pool that was used to pay for assistance in the past. Shouldn't she or anyone be entitled recoup some of what they paid into the system?

AK lawyer · Jun 28, 2009, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by mullucan

... I need food for my children,I have one that has been on ssi since he was 3yrs he is 16 now. ...

I'm confused here. You have been receiving SSI for thirteen years, working, and accumulating a 401k? How does that work?

Fr_Chuck · Jun 28, 2009, 05:27 AM

1. I agree with Steve I don't think people with money and savings over certain levels should be getting food stamps, it is my money ( taxes) that pays for this

2. For this to be looked at as savings, I would bet ( assume) someone filled out the paper work incorrectly.

excon · Jun 28, 2009, 05:27 AM

Hello lawyer:

I don't know, but wouldn't a child whose parent died be entitled to receive his SS? That would be so no matter how much money the step parent made, wouldn't it?

excon

stevetcg · Jun 28, 2009, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

There is another aspect to this that I don't think you are considering. I mentioned it in my last response to the OP; "Remember you paid taxes while you were working and this is your chance to get a return on that." Don't you think that's fair? We aren't talking about someone who has always been on the dole, but someone who has contributed to the pool that was used to pay for assistance in the past. Shouldn't she or anyone be entitled recoup some of what they paid into the system?

Absolutely... once they need it. But if they have savings, they don't need it.