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riverposie · Dec 30, 2007, 09:06 PM

I am retired & get social security & a pension that is direct deposite in a joint account. My pension is funded by a government agency called: P.B.G.C. ( pension benefits guarantee corp.) They took over my pension when Bethlehem Steel went bankrupt) I owe $3,000.00 for several years to some collection agency... The loan was originally with Sears, but they sold it and it has been sold several times in the past few years. I want to know: If they should sue me for the money, can my federal funded pension be garnished? I know they can't touch my social security.. I own nothing .& the 30 year old mobile home I live in is in my wife & my name... I live in Pennsylvania and someone told me that they can't touch my pension, in this state but I need to know as that is all they could possible go after... Thanks

oneguyinohio · Dec 30, 2007, 09:12 PM

I do not know anything certain, but would think they might be able to go after the account that it is deposited into at the bank. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will respond soon.

Legalcom CEO · Dec 30, 2007, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by riverposie

I am retired & get social security & a pension that is direct deposite in a joint account. My pension is funded by a government agency called: P.B.G.C. ( pension benefits guarantee corp.) They took over my pension when Bethlehem Steel went bankrupt) I owe $3,000.00 for several years to some collection agency ...The loan was originally with Sears, but they sold it and it has been sold several times in the past few years. I want to know: If they should sue me for the money, can my federal funded pension be garnished? I know they can't touch my social security..I own nothing .& the 30 year old mobile home I live in is in my wife & my name...I live in Pennsylvania and someone told me that they can't touch my pension, in this state but i need to know as that is all they could possible go after....Thanks

No other law is as impenetriable than the Judgement Debtor. If it has been sold and bought, it is very unlikely litigate, anyway they need to find you then personally serve you.

riverposie · Dec 30, 2007, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by oneguyinohio

I do not know anything certain, but would think they might be able to go after the account that it is deposited into at the bank. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will respond soon.

I know they can't touch social security... that I am sure of and I think that anything that is paid by the federal gov. (my pension is also exempt) Also , my account is a joint and they can not touch anything that is my wife's as she is not responsible for my credit card debt.. Thanks
I will await other positive answers:)

ScottGem · Dec 31, 2007, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by Legalcom CEO

No other law is as impenetriable than the Judgement Debtor. If it has been sold and bought, it is very unlikely litigate, anyway they need to find you then personally serve you.

Huh? What does that mean?

ScottGem · Dec 31, 2007, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by riverposie

I know they can't touch social security...that i am sure of and i think that anything that is paid by the federal gov. (my pension is also exempt) Also , my account is a joint and they can not touch anything that is my wifes as she is not responsible for my credit card debt..Thanks
I will await other positive answers:)

It doesn't matter that the pension is being managed by the PBGC, its still a private pension. Most likely it can be garnished. You are also laboring under some misunderstandings. The fact that your wife is a joint tenant on your accounts and home does nothing to prevent them from attaching those. Any account that you are a joint owner on is subject to attachment.

While they can't garnish your SS benefits, once its deposited in your account it becomes an attachable asset unless you can prove where the funds came from.

But I think you are jumping the gun here. Did they get a judgement against you? Did you recevie a summons that they are asking for a judgement?

riverposie · Dec 31, 2007, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

It doesn't matter that the pension is being managed by the PBGC, its still a private pension. Most likely it can be garnished. You are also laboring under some misunderstandings. The fact that your wife is a joint tenant on your accounts and home does nothing to prevent them from attaching those. Any account that you are a joint owner on is subject to attachment.

While they can't garnish your SS benefits, once its deposited in your account it becomes an attachable asset unless you can prove where the funds came from.

But I think you are jumping the gun here. Did they get a judgement against you? Did you recevie a summons that they are asking for a judgement?

I don't know where you got your info. But I do know they can't touch anything that is also in my wife's name. My lawyer told me that if they would try that she could sue because they cannot in any way put a lean or garnish anything that she owns.. She is in no way responsible for my credit card debt (that is why my lawyer told me to put anything I own in both names in the first place )... her name was never on it.. Also I am positively they can NEVER garnish my social security.That I was told by social security... I was also told that Pa. law does not let them garnish pensions, but I need to know positively...

riverposie · Dec 31, 2007, 09:20 AM

Thank you everyone for all the help, but I just got my correct answer from the people that pay my pension (P.B.G.C.) and I was right they can't garnish it. Here is the exact answer they gave..

PBGC allows IRS Levy deductions, deductions for Federal Tax withholding, and deductions for Qualified Domestic Relations Orders. PBGC also allows Third Party Payment request upon written agreement signed by both the payee and the third party.

PBGC does not allow deductions for State & Local taxes, Health Insurance Premiums, Life Insurance Premiums, Garnishment Request or Child Support not ordered under a QDRO, or Request for Assignment of a benefit due an Incarcerated Payee.

Thank you for contacting PBGC and please contact us at 1-800-400-7242 if you have any further questions.

ScottGem · Dec 31, 2007, 09:22 AM

You are either misunderstanding your lawyer or he's giving you bum information. Yes, your wife is not responsible for any debts you incurred that she is not signed on. But that's not the point. The point is you have a JOINT account with her. That makes you a part owner of that account so any assets in that account are part yours. The creditor doesn't know who put money in that account or what the source of that money was. So they CAN legally attach the account. Now what would happen in that case is you would have to file with the court that issued the attachment order to quash the attachment on the grounds that the funds deposited came from exempt sources. You would most likely win, but in the meantime your account would be frozen for a time.

But you didn't answer my questions. This is all moot if you do not have a judgement against you or one is not pending. So help us help you by giving us the info we need.

riverposie · Dec 31, 2007, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

You are either misunderstanding your lawyer or he's giving you bum information. Yes, your wife is not responsible for any debts you incurred that she is not signed on. But that's not the point. The point is you have a JOINT account with her. That makes you a part owner of that account so any assets in that account are part yours. The creditor doesn't know who put money in that account or what the source of that money was. So they CAN legally attach the account. Now what would happen in that case is you would have to file with the court that issued the attachment order to quash the attachment on the grounds that the funds deposited came from exempt sources. You would most likely win, but in the meantime your account would be frozen for a time.

But you didn't answer my questions. This is all moot if you do not have a judgement against you or one is not pending. So help us help you by giving us the info we need.

No ,they have not done anything other than constantly sell it and call & send letters that I owe them... They have never threatened to sue. I am just looking ahead in case they do... Now that in the previous remarks I just got from P.B.G.C. I know that can't garnish it... this is what I thought along, but wasn't sure... thanks for the help

ScottGem · Dec 31, 2007, 10:02 AM

When and if you get a summons from them then you can worry about this. Its possible the SOL has expired so they can no longer sue. You can forestall things by filing a letter with your bank stating that any deposits made to your account are from funds exempt from garnishment or not from someone who is liable for your debts. This way, if they do get a garnishment order they can refuse it.

But you have to understand that garnishing a periodic payment is not the same as attaching an asset. That's why they CAN attach your account even though the money in it was received from exempt sources.

riverposie · Jan 1, 2008, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

When and if you get a summons from them then you can worry about this. its possible the SOL has expired so they can no longer sue. You can forestall things by filing a letter with your bank stating that any deposits made to your account are from funds exempt from garnishment or not from someone who is liable for your debts. This way, if they do get a garnishment order they can refuse it.

But you have to understand that garnishing a periodic payment is not the same as attaching an asset. That's why they CAN attach your account even though the money in it was received from exempt sources.

If they do try to garnish my checking account or freeze it, I will simply notify social security & pbgs to stop direct deposite and send a check. Then I will cancel the account and open a new one in my wife's name only.. That will settle that...

s_cianci · Jan 1, 2008, 01:34 PM

Contact P.G.B.C. They should be able to advise you whether your pension is exempt from garnishment. Other than that, they could place a lien on your home. If push comes to shove and you are sued, your best bet may be to go to court and deny that you owe the debt. The plaintiff will then have to furnish proof. I'm guessing that this is a fairly old debt, in which case a lot of the original documentation has probably "fallen through the cracks", so to speak.

ScottGem · Jan 1, 2008, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by riverposie

If they do try to garnish my checking account or freeze it, I will simply notify social security & pbgs to stop direct deposite and send a check. Then I will cancel the account and open a new one in my wifes name only..That will settle that...

No it won't. First, whatever is in the account will remain frozen until you can clear up the mess. Second, it may take time to stop the direct deposits. Some payments require direct deposit so you may need to open the new account first.

But why do you want to be reactive instead of proactive. If they get a judgement against you, is when you act, not wait until they use the judgement.

s_cianci · Jan 1, 2008, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by riverposie

I dont know where you got your info. but i do know they can't touch anything that is also in my wifes name. My lawyer told me that if they would try that she could sue because they cannot in any way put a lean or garnish anything that she owns..

With all due respect sir, it's you who's misinformed. Anything you own, whether solely or jointly, is subject to lien. Now if you can somehow apportion your joint assets between you and your wife, then it is possible your wife could sue to have her portion exempt from garnishment as an injured spouse. But you're talking a lot of red tape and groundwork and there are no doubt easier solutions to your problem than that. You could have your wife open an account in her name only and redirect the deposits of your pension and social security into that account. But keep in mind that if your creditor receives a judgement, anything that can be garnished (i.e. pension, if subject to garnishment) will probably have the garnished payment deducted straight off the top, similar to a withholding tax, before it ever gets deposited in your account.

riverposie · Jan 1, 2008, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

No it won't. First, whatever is in the account will remain frozen until you can clear up the mess. Second, it may take time to stop the direct deposits. Some payments require direct deposit so you may need to open the new account first.

But why do you want to be reactive instead of proactive. If they get a judgement against you, is when you act, not wait until they use the judgement.

Neither social security or my pension require direct deposite.. This is strictly my decision and they will stop it simply by one phone call... I have done this before . I am able to switch any time ant it takes one day... As far as them freezing my account, who cares... there will be next to nothing in there so they can do that forever as far as I care... and yes I would wait till when & if the would try anything...

riverposie · Jan 1, 2008, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by s_cianci

With all due respect sir, it's you who's misinformed. Anything you own, whether solely or jointly, is subject to lien. Now if you can somehow apportion your joint assets between you and your wife, then it is possible your wife could sue to have her portion exempt from garnishment as an injured spouse. But you're talking a lot of red tape and groundwork and there are no doubt easier solutions to your problem than that. You could have your wife open an account in her name only and redirect the deposits of your pension and social security into that account. But keep in mind that if your creditor receives a judgement, anything that can be garnished (i.e. pension, if subject to garnishment) will probably have the garnished payment deducted straight off the top, similar to a withholding tax, before it ever gets deposited in your account.

AS I previously stated.. I own nothing I live in a $500.00 house trailer that is legally in my wife's name & mine... also & I know they cannot take anything that is in more that one party's name. If they want to put a lean on it WHO CARES.. I will live & die here.. I have bad credut already & don't care about that
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