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    Hope12's Avatar
    Hope12 Posts: 159, Reputation: 25
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    #1

    Aug 27, 2007, 03:19 AM
    Is It Really Fair? If so, to Who?




    This question is something that many of our young girls of today must ask themselves. It is a heart-wrenching question for any who contemplate it. Some really don’t know what to do because of the lack of maturity that only comes from experience and age. Some young ladies are only 12 years old, and very confused and frightened.

    Society asks, why would anyone want to kill the life of any developing human within themselves? Why would any doctor, nurse or any professional person, who took an oath to do everything in their power to save life, now want to take a life? Answering this question might make some very angry at me but I must write this for the sake of the unborn and for the benefit of a young girl facing such a choice. There are reasons abortions are done everyday. One very main reason is selfishness either on the part of the parents and it might also be on the part of the expecting mother to be. Also they sometimes do not wish to take the responsibility for their choices and so now the unborn must pay the price for their bad actions.

    Society feels in some cases it is better to avoid the consequences of the act and to take steps to conceal, rather then to talk about the problem of sexual intercourse and it being used as a pastime outside of marriage. Some want to enjoy sex fully, without taking responsibility of a natural consequence of sex, a baby! Abortion today is being used as form of birth control. This method of birth control is unfair to the unborn child and is just a plain sick method of shrugging ones responsibility and putting their own selfish desires before the life of the unborn. There is no respect for life in those who abort the innocent because they are addicted to the selfish desire of sexual pleasure then to show respect for life.

    The Bible says: “In the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves” and “lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God.” Is it not obvious that this condition prevails in our day?—2 Timothy 3:1-4.

    Do you know that in the medical field and elsewhere the unborn baby is referred to as “the products of conception,” or what about “contents of the uterus”. Doctors who do abortion refer to the unborn as “contents of the uterus.” In the process of an abortion to make look less then killing, a doctor might ask the nurse, “Is the “content of the uterus” completed?” How sad when a unborn human is not even referred to anything but “content.” These ones that commit such horrific acts against the unborn, try to avoid the moral issue by calling an abortion “termination of pregnancy.” No matter what doctors and abortion clinics and those who go to them try to avoid, the fact remains is this: Abortion is the killing of an unborn human.

    Just because the unborn is in the uterus does not make any difference. The abortion is done within 12 weeks of conception. What difference does it make though as to when a human is choked to death, 12 weeks after conception or 12 minutes after it is born into this world? Is not killing still killing? Many moral professionals have though quit their jobs because they could not stand seeing a helpless fetus that was aborted, suffer and struggle to live in a disposal container, while other doctors and nurses sit back and watch this fetus fight to live, until it can not fight any longer. What if that fetus was you?

    Some claim that the fetus in not human yet and it doesn’t feel. If that is true, then why do some professionals quit their jobs because of seeing the aborted fetus struggle to live?
    These same ones say the fetus is not human because it cannot live by itself. This is not a good argument because we have many adults and children, who depend on the use of an artificial kidney machine or the aid of a battery-powered heart pacemaker. These ones cannot live without the help of these machines. Does that make them less human and alive?

    Medical professionals agree that life does begin at the moment of conception. I quote The World Book Encyclopedia, page 228b, has a photograph of an egg and sperm taken through a microscope. The caption over the photo says: “A human life begins when the sperm gets through the outer covering of an egg and fertilizes it.” After reading this from the world encyclopedia, can you personally say that the life snuffed out was not a live unborn human?

    Remember this, if your mother aborted you, you would have ended up in a garbage can. As a human that was allowed to live and that did not get aborted as a fetus, do you personally regret that your mother was more concerned with the right for you to live and welcome you, then her rights to have an abortion? Then maybe you will feel for the unborn humans that get aborted every day in this world.

    If you are a young lady and are faced with the choice of either becoming responsible for your unborn child, giving it up for adoption, or abortion, please read something I wrote that might help you in your choice. Thank you for reading it.

    “Mommy, Can You Hear Me?”
    By Hope12

    “Today I was conceived. I do not have a name as of yet, but my life began today. I can’t wait to see you mommy and tell you how much I love you. I can’t wait for you to hold me in your arms.
    Mommy, can you hear me?”

    “I am really small, but guess what, I am really here, and I just can’t wait to touch your face and see your smile. I am yours and I am real.
    Mommy, Can you hear me?

    You should see me mommy I am really growing and getting stronger and stronger each day. Why I am so surprise, because I look and each day I find something new. Now don’t worry mommy, pretty soon I will see you and I know you will love me, because I already love you.”

    Today I heard a loud beat, it was my heart and it beats strong. My heart will be important to my future because it will keep me alive when I am born and it will motivate me to always love you and do what is good, especially for you.”

    “Mommy, can you hear me?”

    Oh, my, what is this, it looks like my arms and legs are growing. I am going to have legs so I can run and jump into your arms. I’m really so excited.”

    “Mommy can you hear me?”

    I will soon grow so big for this place and I will need more room, and that is when I will be with you Mommy.” It is quit dark here and I can’t wait to feel the sunlight on my face and play outside with you

    I wonder what color hair you have mommy? Are you tall or short? Don’t worry; I will love you no matter what you look like. Do you love me? Oh that a silly question because, “I love you mommy and I just know you will love me. I am such a strong and healthy little girl. I am also part of you mommy, so I guess I will be just like you. I think you are special and you are my mommy who I love and can’t wait to see. Mommy, can you hear me?”

    “Wait, please wait, don’t do that it hurts real bad. What is going on? Ouch, oh my, I don’t feel so good, mommy. Something terrible is happening to me and it really hurts me.” Please Mommy, make it stop hurting, I’m so scared mommy. I really need your help mommy, something hurts me and it is making me cry.

    Mommy, can you hear me?”

    What is your comments and can you answer the question: Is this fair? If so to who?
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #2

    Aug 27, 2007, 03:26 AM
    Abortion has been debated here ad nauseum. Both sides aren't going to sway their opinion. A sappy poem meant about a blob of cells that can't talk won't help either. Maybe another story about alcoholic parents will yield better results.
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    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,301, Reputation: 7692
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    #3

    Aug 27, 2007, 04:55 AM
    Your picture says 1000 words, I fight the fight one life at a time.

    But basically life has little meaning or purpose or value to many, and most lack respect for life so killing is very easy for them.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
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    #4

    Aug 27, 2007, 05:02 AM
    I don't think most humans lack a respect for life. I know of no people that would easily kill another. That's a very dim view of life on this planet. :(
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #5

    Aug 27, 2007, 10:26 AM
    Hope,
    You'll need to read the correct usage of the Comment system:
    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/feedba...ure-24951.html
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    #6

    Aug 27, 2007, 11:46 AM
    I happen to agree here with NeedKarma, which may surprise him. I don't believe that what you wrote is going to bring out any new view points or perspectives from anyone. People have their opinions regarding abortion and that story isn't going to change it. I am certain that everyone has come to their own conclusions based on their own experiences. I am pro choice and I still do respect life. I respect the right of women to make their own choices and unless a baby is viable outside the womb, I don't see it any other way. Nothing you say will change that. Is is fair? It doesn't matter. People who are pro life believe no one should be able to make that choice, but what about in war? Life is life, so how do you justify one killing and not another? Either you believe in justifying it for your own beliefs or you don't. Also, why do you direct that question at only the girls? Does it not take a male and a female to create life (technically speaking)? Therefore, why are you putting the responsibility on girls to make the right choice, when you don't even direct the question to the guys who have to be part of that baby making process. I don't know how you can ask what is fair, when the question you asked isn't even fair.
    JoeCanada76's Avatar
    JoeCanada76 Posts: 6,669, Reputation: 1707
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    #7

    Aug 27, 2007, 11:54 AM
    Hello Again Hope,

    I have very strong views and beliefs on this subject. Do I believe it is fair, no.

    I actually go a step further and consider the abortion of a baby, murder.

    It has been discussed in length many different threads and posts but I would like to say that here, in this instance I think it is very important for people to stand up and say, this is wrong to kill innocent babies.

    I am not here to argue with anybody that has a different opinion or thoughts. This is exactly how I feel and most people know that I will state exactly what I think. Everybody has their different view points and feelings and thoughts on this.

    Okay hope, good post.

    Joe
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    alkalineangel Posts: 2,391, Reputation: 323
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    #8

    Aug 27, 2007, 11:59 AM
    I am pro-choice and I value life, I think it is wrong to say those who would abort have no respect for life. I also think it is wrong to say the reason behind it is selfishness. Each story has a different reason... abortion has many faces. Adoption has many faces. No face is the same and neither are any less difficult than the other. It really upsets me when I read this kind of thing... not because I think abortion is right or wrong, but because it means there are people who still expect the faces to be the same...
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #9

    Aug 27, 2007, 12:06 PM
    Of course we could write the same story with different players:

    "Father, why did you hurt me?"
    "I put my trust in you yet you stole my childhood."
    "It hurts when you do that to me, how can you not see that?"
    "I just wanted to be a altarboy, I had no idea you would violate every thing that is sacred as a priest."
    "Mommy, Daddy, why did you trust this person, my mind is confused and I can no longer trust anyone."
    "Why did his superiors hide the fact that there are thousands like me getting violated and abused?"
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    jillianleab Posts: 1,194, Reputation: 279
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    #10

    Aug 27, 2007, 01:15 PM
    I don't think most people can say 100% what they would do unless they are in the situation themselves. I support the right of choice. No one should be forced to have an abortion, and no one should be forced to carry a baby they do not want in to this world. It's horrible that some women do use abortion as birth control (having unprotected sex with the idea that if they get pregnant, no biggie, go abort), but just because some people do such things doesn't mean we should all have to endure unwanted pregnancies. I don't think pro-choice people have no respect for life, and Chuck to make the implication that the choice to have an abortion is "easy for them" is insensitive and rude. You have never been in that position, you don't know the emotional turmoil that takes place. But, you are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.

    Here's an interesting article about pro-lifers having abortions, then going right back out to the picket line. The only moral abortion is my abortion, indeed.

    "The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion" - When the Anti-Choice Choose
    Hope12's Avatar
    Hope12 Posts: 159, Reputation: 25
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    #11

    Aug 27, 2007, 05:18 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma
    Hope,
    You'll need to read the correct usage of the Comment system:
    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/feedba...ure-24951.html
    My apologies if I have used the site in bad form. I will watch that in the future.
    Sincerely,
    Hope 12
    Hope12's Avatar
    Hope12 Posts: 159, Reputation: 25
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    #12

    Aug 27, 2007, 05:26 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesushelper76
    Hello Again Hope,

    I have very strong views and beliefs on this subject. Do I believe it is fair, no.

    I actually go a step further and consider the abortion of a baby, murder.

    It has been discussed in length many different threads and posts but I would like to say that here, in this instance I think it is very important for people to stand up and say, this is wrong to kill innocent babies.

    I am not here to argue with anybody that has a different opinion or thoughts. This is exactly how I feel and most people know that I will state exactly what I think. Everybody has their different view points and feelings and thoughts on this.

    Okay hope, good post.

    Joe
    Hello Joe,
    I definitely agree with your opinion on this matter. I feel that I can not just sit back and say that wrong is wrong, and abortion is truly murder dressed up with sympathy for the one who choices to abort the unborn.

    I too am not here to argue but I have to state what I feel is right just as those who are for abortion give their view on the value of life in their opinion.

    Thank you Joe for your reply and I agree.
    Take care,
    Hope12
    Hope12's Avatar
    Hope12 Posts: 159, Reputation: 25
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    #13

    Aug 27, 2007, 05:37 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma
    Of course we could write the same story with different players:

    "Father, why did you hurt me?"
    "I put my trust in you yet you stole my childhood."
    "It hurts when you do that to me, how can you not see that?"
    "I just wanted to be a altarboy, I had no idea you would violate every thing that is sacred as a priest."
    "Mommy, Daddy, why did you trust this person, my mind is confused and I can no longer trust anyone."
    "Why did his superiors hide the fact that there are thousands like me getting violated and abused?"
    I agree the preist are wrong and have violated children, yet two wrongs do not make a right. Abortion are ussually done because a baby is not wanted. The religious leaders molest children, mostly alter boys because they are sexual perverts. The issues are different in one is done to a child or teen against their will. A fetus is aborted because they have are not given a choice and are murdered because of a girl or women who either had sex of their own free will or was rapped. The difference here is the child being carried due to the sex act. Now if the women or girl was rapped, why would she also committ murder to the unborn fetus. The fetus did not rape her. Have the child and then give it to a couple who can not have children.

    The other situation where the teen girl or women has sex just to fulfill a desire, and then can not deal with or face the consquences of their actioin, is selfish and a murderer. They had a choice to make then, either have protected sex if they were going to, or not, that was their choice. If another human should live or die, is not a choice any women, girl, man or boy have a right to make. Only God has that right.

    Take care,
    Hope12
    Hope12's Avatar
    Hope12 Posts: 159, Reputation: 25
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    #14

    Aug 27, 2007, 05:53 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by shatteredsoul
    I happen to agree here with NeedKarma, which may suprise him. I don't believe that what you wrote is going to bring out any new view points or perspectives from anyone. People have their opinions regarding abortion and that story isn't going to change it. I am certain that everyone has come to their own conclusions based on their own experiences. I am pro choice and I still do respect life. I respect the right of women to make their own choices and unless a baby is viable outside the womb, I don't see it any other way. Nothing you say will change that. Is is fair? It doesn't matter. People who are pro life believe no one should be able to make that choice, but what about in war? Life is life, so how do you justify one killing and not another? Either you believe in justifying it for your own beliefs or you don't. Also, why do you direct that question at only the girls? Does it not take a male and a female to create life (technically speaking)? Therefore, why are you putting the responsibility on girls to make the right choice, when you don't even direct the question to the guys who have to be part of that baby making process. I don't know how you can ask what is fair, when the question you asked isn't even fair.

    I do not approve of killings of any kind. I do not approve of war nor would I kill another because the country I live in tells me to. Murder is murder. I do not go to war nor do any of those of my faith. I would rather go to jail or be killed myself then to kill another person. I am pro for what is right in God's eyes, not pro-choice. When it come to life and taking anothers life I believe that is not my choice or yours to make. So please know I am not pro-choice as society calls it.

    My post is directed to all involved. Some parents encourage their daughters to get an abortion, this way they take the easier way out and don't have to face up to their responsibility as a parent and that is to teach their teen that teens should have sex within the marital arrangement. As to the guys that helped in that pregnancy, they sometime beg the girl to get an abortion and then after they think the problem for them is solved they leave the girl anyway. I agree that is wrong and he also as a teen should not be having sex. Why not teach the younger ones to have respect for their bodies.

    My question is fair because everyone but the unborn fetus seems to have choices, only those who stand for what is right in God's eyes will take and try to see that a defenceless fetus has a chance to survive without being murdered. I am for what is right in God's eyes not public opinion nor what society feels is right. God watches out for all those who obey his laws and one of his laws is "Thou shall not kill." That covers abortions, and wars, and anything else where one hunan takes the life of another.

    Take care,
    Hope12
    Synnen's Avatar
    Synnen Posts: 7,927, Reputation: 2443
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    #15

    Aug 27, 2007, 06:28 PM
    I can't even post what I really feel here.

    I hope that Karma works with each of you that judges another's choice and deems it an easy, uncaring choice, regardless how hard it was for the person choosing.
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    worthbeads Posts: 538, Reputation: 45
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    #16

    Aug 27, 2007, 06:40 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma
    worthbeads agrees: red balancer: When they kill the babies they don't think it's wrong. They may be evil, but hey don't do it intentionally.
    Oops, I worded that wrong. A better way to say the end is "they don't necessarily know it's wrong.
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    #17

    Aug 27, 2007, 07:27 PM
    I used to feel very strongly anti-abortion until I met a young woman, only 19, who had been her father's sexual victim since she was 12. Her mother fully knew what her father was doing to her and did not stop him. She had 5 pregnancies, starting at age 13. Four of the pregnancies self-aborted. One pregnancy made it until delivery and was born so badly deformed. The baby died within hours of birth. Now, should she have had the right to abort that baby within the first three months? I think so, knowing what the chances were that the baby would not be a healthy and normal child. Plus being brought up in that home.

    So while I do not advocate abortion on demand or abortion as a birth control method, I do see circumstances where it is medically necessary. It is not as easy as black and white, or being cut and dried. How many of us have been in a situation that requires this personal decision?

    I cannot comment on your poem, Hope. Things like that are overdone and does little to help someone in desperate need of understanding and compassion.
    Hope12's Avatar
    Hope12 Posts: 159, Reputation: 25
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    #18

    Aug 28, 2007, 09:44 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by shygrneyzs
    I used to feel very strongly anti-abortion until I met a young woman, only 19, who had been her father's sexual victim since she was 12. Her mother fully knew what her father was doing to her and did not stop him. She had 5 pregnancies, starting at age 13. Four of the pregnancies self-aborted. One pregnancy made it until delivery and was born so badly deformed. The baby died within hours of birth. Now, should she have had the right to abort that baby within the first three months? I think so, knowing what the chances were that the baby would not be a healthy and normal child. Plus being brought up in that home.

    So while I do not advocate abortion on demand or abortion as a birth control method, I do see circumstances where it is medically necessary. It is not as easy as black and white, or being cut and dried. How many of us have been in a situation that requires this personal decision?

    I cannot comment on your poem, Hope. Things like that are overdone and does little to help someone in desperate need of understanding and compassion.
    Hello Shygreyzs,

    I was born with Cerebral palsy, I was sexually abused as a young girl. I had to make a choice of keeping my son or aborting him. I kept my son. Why? Would he not remind me of the man who sexually attacked me. He might, but I had the spiritual training and counsel that made me realize the difference is that the unborn child had done nothing to hurt me and when I conceived my son was part of me. It was a very dificult time for me and I being disabled myself knew that there was a possibility that this child would be born deformed and yet I thought . I was born with disabilities and part of me is deformed. Yet I grew up as other kids did, things were harder for me to do, but I enjoyed life and living. The next thought was, if I abort this unborn child, what would be the reason? So I gave birth to my son Johnathan. My son lived a short time and then he died. Would I have changed my choice. No, I would not. I will one day see my son again but he will be healthy and strong. I believe in the resurrection by Jesus Christ. John 5:28,29. Revelation 21:1-5.

    My son Johnathan did not rape me, a sexual pervert did. Why would I blame an innocent unborn person that is part of me. And if I had aborted him because he was deformed, then what's next, lets abort all those fetuses that will be born with brown eyes instead of the blue ones that parents want. Or what about those who might be born with down syndrome or other disablities? Who gave us the right to decide what unborn human should live or die?

    There has to be laws that govern such things. At the time I was sexully attacked, I was scared, ashamed, I showered about 5 times a day, I would not eat, I hid from people. It was not easy, yet because of the love of my family and the love my God has taught me to have for my family, I realized that this unborn child was part of me and was part of the family. I learned that while the unborn is in the mother's uterus, they are growing and they are in the uterus because that is their protection until all their parts have been developed strong enough to live outside the uterus. God made the uterus as a protection for the growing baby,and if God thought to protect the unborn, what kind of a person would I be, as the mother of this unborn child.

    Instead of spending so much money on abortions and teaching young children to protect themselve when they have sex, and passing out condoms in schools. Why not take the money from those programs and teach our children to respect their bodies and that sex is for within the marital arrangement. This then will possible cut down on sexual perverts that rape innocent children and also would leave more money for housing these perverts in prisions where they belong. The money saved can also get young women and girls who are attacked by sexual perverts the proper counsel that she needs. When a young girl is sexually abused she is treated like the criminal and like she did something wrong. Why not spend the time and money helping these young girls get the help they really need. No child should have sex, so why so many programs in the schools?

    Parents need to also take back the sex education and put it back in the home where it belongs. When young girls like in you comments get raped by their own father who is suppose to protect that child, then why not get places young ones can go to for help?

    Society has it all messed up, they are trying to deal with a problem that God has already dealt with. They poblem lies with the fact that when we start feeling we as humans know more then God does, we go down the wrong road. Two wrongs do not make a right. If a young person is raped then let's kill the consquences of that rape. I say it is wrong to deal with this situation the way society does. Abortions will only make matter worse. We as a society need to work what is good for all, the young girl, and the unborn fetus. Abortions are just a coverup of the consquences of wrong action on the part of another human. How we deal with those consquences will either help future generations or bring them even further away from humanity and compassion for others. The way that abortions are done today and so many of them it teaches future generations it is okay to kill and hate and be violent.

    Here is my understanding for any women or girl claiming to believe in God or to follow God' s laws on such matters.

    Ps. 139:13-16: “You kept me screened off in the belly of my mother. . . . Your eyes saw even the embryo of me, and in your book all its parts were down in writing.”

    Has God ever stated that a person would be called to account for injury to an unborn child?

    Ex. 21:22, 23: “In case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices. But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul.”

    Some translations make it appear that in this law to Israel the crucial matter was what happened to the mother, not to the fetus. The original Hebrew text, however, refers to a fatal accident to either mother or child.

    How serious is the willful taking of a human life for a reason not authorized by God?

    Gen. 9:6: “Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image he made man.”

    So in conclusion God made all of us is my belief, so who am I to take anyone's life, especailly the life of an innocent unborn child, my child, Johnathan who I love and can't wait to see again. Why not listen to the one who created us and knows what is best for each of us and in all situations. If we listen, we might not have the problems our young ones are facing in today's world. Mankind is his very own worst enemy.

    Take care,
    Hope12
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    shatteredsoul Posts: 423, Reputation: 130
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    #19

    Aug 28, 2007, 10:47 AM
    Hope,
    In listening to your experience with such tragedy, I want you to know I respect and value your opinion and your decision. The ability to make the choice to keep your baby was yours to make and you did what you felt was right and necessary. NO one will disagree with that. I think your courage and your character, as a person, shine through and that your inner strength is something to be proud of and to share with others. With that said, I do not think this entitles you to make everyone feel the same way as you, or to have the same perspective. Part of being a child of God and recognizing your faith, means not placing judgment on those that are different than you. Maybe your opinion, your belief is one that doesn't include an acceptance of any killing or any death, that is an honorable way to live your life. However, that doesn't entitle you to enforce those beliefs on everyone around you. Maybe you see it one way, someone else's experience is different, and the outcome to their situation is different. Either way we were graced with the gift of free will. From the beginning of time, men and women alike have abused that right and have killed unnecessarily and harmed many, unmercifully. It isn't our job to judge that person. We have laws that society deems appropriate to deal with such abuse and murder. The law regarding abortion doesn't give anyone the right to kill a person, this is where your argument begins. The law protecting one's right to choose to terminate a pregnancy, is determined by the viability of the fetus. That meaning, if the fetus cannot survive outside of the womb, it is not considered a separate human being with rights. IT is still part of the woman's body and without the woman, the fetus could not survive. This is a much heated debate and will continue to be, because you assume that the fetus is a complete person like you or I. It is my OPINION, that if the child is viable outside the womb, it is then considered to be a separate entity and then is guaranteed the same rights as you or I. I am not saying that is everyone's perspective, but it is what I have come to find as true for me. Your situation, experience, heartbreak or tragedy doesn't change that for me. If my child was raped and couldn't live with herself by becoming a mother at a young age, by her attacker, than I would support her in choosing to abort. If she had sex before she should and became pregnant, and wanted to be the mother, I would support her. You assume that because someone is pro choice than that means that they would suggest abortion as the first and only means of resolving the issue. THat is simply an assumption based on your opinion. NOt everyone sees everything in such limited terms. IT depends on the circumstance and no one's situation is the same. Everyone doesn't have the same capacity to handle what you went through. I knew a girl in high school who was raped by her uncle and her family refused to let her get an abortion and she shot herself in the head. I don't know what the right thing was for her to do, but some people do not have the coping skills or the strength to endure such a painful situation. I am not preaching anything to my child except to be a good person, to value her body and to preserve herself and see herself as holy. I cannot say what she will do in the future, or if she will take heed to my advice. I don't think she will engage in sex but I cannot say for sure what she will do. Not everything is absolute and in a perfect world, maybe everyone will be able to handle themselves with the tenacity and courage that you have.
    As far as what should be taught in school or at home, is again your opinion. All you can do is raise your family or your loved ones, to have the faith and resolve that you have and teach them what you think is right or wrong. CHildren learn about sex way before it is taught in schools and most of what they learn is from each other. Whether it is accurate or not is up to the parent to discuss with the child. Not every parent has the awareness, understanding, the skills, energy or time to have such discussions with their child. Most are trying to get through the work week, take care of their bills, their home and keep their children fed. Many people are living pay check to pay check and they don't realize the importance of teaching their children certain values, beiliefs or ways to build character. Even hundreds of years ago, children were raised by an entire village of people. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, siblings all helped each other. Many would utilize their own strengths and involve themselves in raising the children. In this day and age, many people are struggling, alone to raise their children. They don't have the ability to do it all, and this is where things have fallen apart. To judge the parent and to criticize how people raise their children, doesn't solve anything. If you want to help others, do it with compassion and understanding with the things you don't necessarily understand or agree with. This is what God wants. We can be messengers of hope, peace and love, without imposing our beliefs or judgments upon those that see it differently.
    I too, do not believe in war. I respect life and I respect nature. I love people and I love animals. I do not believe that my views hinder that in any way. I teach my daughter to accept others for their differences and to embrace what she may not understand or be comfortable with. This is all I can do, that is my truth. I feel that God loves me and accepts me regardless of my beliefs, or my mistakes along the way. It isn't the destiny that is important, it is the process of living and learning.
    As for as for me, God lives within and I answer to that and no one else. Your views are so narrow in scope because you equate the right to choose, with an acceptance of violence and hatred. This is not fair or true. I do not think one is determinate of the other and I do not believe that anyone preaches that abortion is the answer in any public forum. In fact, most schools are very limited in teaching about sexuality and the consequences of what happens if they engage in it. It is not a permission slip to go have sex. Whether a teenager decides to have sex with someone, isn't because they learned about it in school. Some of the most promiscious people are those that do not have a love of self, or any idea of what they want in life. This comes down to each individual's experience and what they have learned about themselves. We should be teaching our children about how to develop and nurture their gifts as humans and how to relate to those that are different. We should begin to bridge the gaps between those who are of another status, religion, race or orientation. We should teach our children about loving themselves and seeing themselves as good and worthy, so they don't look to things like sex for acceptance or love. To find solutions, we must begin with ourselves and our ability to accept that which we do not understand. NOt everyone views God, religion, the right to life or anything else like you, so we cannot impose that and expect positive results. YOu can preach all day about what you think is wrong and immoral and unethical, but it doesn't affect change, it creates discord. If we find ways to accept others, and their differences, we begin to find ways to connect and teach true compassion and forgiveness. Forgive what you don't understand, find ways of being supportive of that which you don't agree with, and look for solutions, rather than problems. This will enable you to help more people, to affect change and have us learn to unite through our differences. I am not trying to make you change your point of view, but make you see that yours isn't the only valid, or worthy one.
    You sharing the loss of your beautiful son will touch many and will show how your love for him, was more important than what you were feeling or going through. It will also show your ability to accept what you didn't want, agree with, or understand. SO, maybe by you find it in your heart to use the same compassion that you did with your pregnancy, with those that do not have the same ability to endure what you did.
    Hope12's Avatar
    Hope12 Posts: 159, Reputation: 25
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    #20

    Aug 28, 2007, 12:30 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by shatteredsoul
    Hope,
    In listening to your experience with such tragedy, I want you to know I respect and value your opinion and your decision. The ability to make the choice to keep your baby was yours to make and you did what you felt was right and necessary. NO one will disagree with that. I think your courage and your character, as a person, shine through and that your inner strength is something to be proud of and to share with others. With that said, I do not think this entitles you to make everyone feel the same way as you, or to have the same perspective. Part of being a child of God and recognizing your faith, means not placing judgment on those that are different than you. Maybe your opinion, your belief is one that doesn't include an acceptance of any killing or any death, that is an honorable way to live your life. However, that doesn't entitle you to enforce those beliefs on everyone around you. Maybe you see it one way, someone else's experience is different, and the outcome to their situation is different. Either way we were graced with the gift of free will
    You sharing the loss of your beautiful son will touch many and will show how your love for him, was more important than what you were feeling or going through. It will also show your ability to accept what you didn't want, agree with, or understand. SO, maybe by you find it in your heart to use the same compassion that you did with your pregnancy, with those that do not have the same ability to endure what you did.

    Some people have the gift of wording things in a way of not being offensive to others. You my friend have that gift. I have only what I have when it comes to my ability of explaining things in words. If you took offence at my words, please don't, I was not judging you or anyone else. Maybe what you took as offensive or judgemental of others, is just my lack of using words when writing my thoughts or opinions to others.

    First, I am just a human as everyone is. I would never judge another, only God is our judge. You may have thought I am judgeing but maybe it comes across that way because of the inabiltiy to word things correctly or because of my sincere desire to help others who might be going through what I did. Also my strict religioius believes could also be taken as me being judgemental of others. You see in my religious beliefs there is no choice because of my adherence to God's laws. I truly believe in my heart that when it comes to God's laws, they take preference over my deed inner feelings. God protects the unborn from any harm and left laws which govern the unborn fetus. When I explained my experience and my decsion on having my son, it was not something I was judging others on or telling them what they should do. I am sorry if you felt that way, I did not mean it that way. I Was relating how I personally felt about my situation.

    I Truly understand that not everyone has the same feeling or capacity to deal with such things however I was expressing how I dealt with it and why. I had to answer to God for my decsion just as everyone else does. My purpose was never to create discord. My adherence to my understanding of what God's guidance with my decsion might cause some to misunderstand that and that is what causes discord and bad feelings.

    I believe that compassion and love is shown by never doing anything that will harm another. If you feel that life because of not being able to survive out or the mothers womb is not life, I respect your right to that belief. I though believe differently because I believe according to the scriptures God went and made laws to protect the unborn and he would not have done that if the unborn was not considered alive in the mothers womb. But as you so nicely expressed we all will have our own beliefs on that point. Does that make anyone of us less compassionate or loving in our heart because others can not understand where we personally are coming from or what we personally believe in our heart? I say no, because when one truly believes a matter deep down in their heart, they govern their life by it, and they express themselves showing that they truly believe what they are saying or expressing.

    I would never intentionly be judgmental of others, I am just someone who loves others and because I believe in my heart what I express in my opinion, does not make me lack understanding of what others face. It just show the love I have for others because I myself have already experienced the pain, and emotions that are involved in such issues as abortion. Those who have faced such horrific things as being sexually attacked or having had to face agony of being pregnant when just a child themselves, wants to make the pain and hurt easier for those facing it at present.. No my friend, I do not lack understanding or love or compassion, but it is those qualities that so much wants me to rid this world of such pain so not one other young girl will have to face such a horrible situation.

    The only way I know how to do that is to stand up for what I feel is right, not in my eyes or in societies eyes, but in the eyes of the one who created us and knows what is best for us. If that makes me come across as judging others, then my apologies to you, because I do not judge you, nor anyone elese. God is our judge. My purpose in writing my original post was to draw attention to another means of dealing with unwanted pregnancy and unwanted babies. It was not to judge others. As to my beliefs they are my beliefs and I have expressed them, maybe not with such writing ability as you have, but it is my opinion and if that helps one persons pain to be less, then I have accomplished my purpose.

    I do agree with some of what you have stated, I too teach my daughter to respect life and to not have sex until she meets the right guy and gets married. I do though feel that understanding is not the same as compromising what we feel is right and what is wrong in our Creators eyes. If I truly believe in what my God has taught me, then I will bridge the gap between me and others, not by changing my belief or compromising what I believe to be right, but I will bridge that gap by the love that is in my heart for them. God loves all humans, who would I be to hate any or judge any? Compassion only comes if one has love. Just because one does not accept a matter because they feel it to be wrong, does not mean they do not understand or have empathy. One can find the good in all situations and still not compromise their own stand on any situation. That takes love, compassion and understanding.

    Again my apologies if I came across as judging anyone, that is not my intentions nor for me to do. Thank you for your expressions and opinion.

    Take care,
    Hope12

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