Ask Experts Questions for FREE Help !
Ask
    Starman's Avatar
    Starman Posts: 1,308, Reputation: 135
    -
     
    #1

    May 14, 2006, 10:13 AM
    Learning the Piano
    Can one of those portable keyboards be used to learn the piano.
    If so, which one would you recommend?
    Thomas1970's Avatar
    Thomas1970 Posts: 856, Reputation: 131
    Senior Member
     
    #2

    May 15, 2006, 08:23 AM
    Hi Starman,
    Many lower cost Yamaha and Casio keyboards have limited built in tutorials of sorts. Never used the tutorials on my Yamaha, though they are basically relegated to a small LED display. Casio keyboards are probably superior in this regard, some being available with lighted keys to indicate finger placement. Though from a strictly sound oriented perspective, particularly regarding the piano, I personally feel the Yamaha to be far superior. Regardless of which keyboard you buy though, there are software learning programs, most of which I assume would allow you to interface with the keyboard using a USB MIDI hookup (cables). Though it would mean a bit of additional expense, it would probably be a more engaging and superior way to learn with the exception of formal lessons. I wish you luck and enjoyment in your musical endeavors, just learning myself being primarily a guitarist over the past two decades. Hope this is of some help in your decision. Take care.
    Starman's Avatar
    Starman Posts: 1,308, Reputation: 135
    -
     
    #3

    May 15, 2006, 10:16 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas1970
    Hi Starman,
    Many lower cost Yamaha and Casio keyboards have limited built in tutorials of sorts. Never used the tutorials on my Yamaha, though they are basically relegated to a small LED display. Casio keyboards are probably superior in this regard, some being available with lighted keys to indicate finger placement. Though from a strictly sound oriented perspective, particularly regarding the piano, I personally feel the Yamaha to be far superior. Regardless of which keyboard you buy though, there are software learning programs, most of which I assume would allow you to interface with the keyboard using a USB MIDI hookup (cables). Though it would mean a bit of additional expense, it would probably be a more engaging and superior way to learn with the exception of formal lessons. I wish you luck and enjoyment in your musical endeavors, just learning myself being primarily a guitarist over the past two decades. Hope this is of some help in your decision. Take care.
    Thanks for the info. Yes it's helpful in helpng me decide which brand to choose. But I still have a few questions you might be able to help me with. For example, how much of what one learns on these portable keyboards is transferable to the regular piano keyboard. Are less keys included? How about the pedals on the regular piano? Is that mimicked in some wayy on these keyboards?

    Thanks again for the help. : )

    BTW
    I too am a guitarist.
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,301, Reputation: 7692
    Expert
     
    #4

    May 15, 2006, 04:26 PM
    Hello, my wife and I operate a music studio, and a keyboard is better than nothing, If you get one, try and get one with a full set of keys and also full size keys. ( full size for sure)

    If you learn on a non full size keyboard, your fingers will not be moving far enough and in the right positions when you go back to a piano.

    Most of our beginning students start with keyboards to see who it is going to work, and for ones living in limited space apartments. Also people who move a lot find moving a piano hard.

    For example many studios now use electric pianos, for their tone and that they are never off pitch. ( these are not keyboards in that they are larger and cost about 3000 or so for a better one.

    Also often you can find a fair piano used for that 300 to 500 range, we have sold three this year that we have found, cleaned and tuned and resold.

    The pedals on a piano, are not used at the beginning, they allow the piano to have a muted or a vibratoin sound.

    The worst thing about a keyboard is that there is no difference in the sound of the key no matter how hard you hit, so you can't play soft, or loud merely by hitting the keys harder. ( better electric pianos have this funtion)
    So it takes some practice to learn to make louder and softer with the keys.
    Starman's Avatar
    Starman Posts: 1,308, Reputation: 135
    -
     
    #5

    May 15, 2006, 08:58 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
    Hello, my wife and I operate a music studio, and a keyboard is better than nothing, If you get one, try and get one with a full set of keys and also full size keys. ( full size for sure)

    If you learn on a non full size keyboard, your fingers will not be moving far enough and in the right positions when you go back to a piano.

    Most of our beginning students start with keyboards to see who it is going to work, and for ones living in limited space apartments. Also people who move alot find moving a piano hard.

    For example many studios now use electric pianos, for thier tone and that they are never off pitch. ( these are not keyboards in that they are larger and cost about 3000 or so for a better one.

    Also often you can find a fair piano used for that 300 to 500 range, we have sold three this year that we have found, cleaned and tuned and resold.

    The pedals on a piano, are not used at the beginning, they allow the piano to have a muted or a vibratoin sound.

    The worst thing about a keyboard is that there is no difference in the sound of the key no matter how hard you hit, so you can't play soft, or loud merely by hitting the keys harder. ( better electric pianos have this function)
    So it takes some practice to learn to make louder and softer with the keys.
    Thanks for the info!

    You say most students start on keyboards to see which keyboard is going to work? When is a piano student considered ready to learn the pedals? I assume that the keyboard with all the piano keys will have to be the width of a piano-right? Usually, or on the average, how smooth is the transfer from keyboard to regular piano?

    Thanks again!
    Thomas1970's Avatar
    Thomas1970 Posts: 856, Reputation: 131
    Senior Member
     
    #6

    May 16, 2006, 03:58 AM
    Hi Starman,
    Excellent advice by Chuck. I agree, certainly look for a keyboard with full-size keys. As for the pedals, unless you were to buy a full digital piano built in to a stand, starting at around $800 dollars or so, you will be left with only sustain, no other damper (soft, sostenuto) pedals. Though all keyboards' sustain can be set fully (constant) on from the LED menu, having the versatility of a pedal is usually about an additional $30 expense, needing to be purchased separately. Though, as Chuck noted, you can acquire the feel of gauging the distance between notes, switching to a piano will still be something of a transition. Most keyboards rely on springs for tension, which will never come close to simulating the hammer action of a piano. Keybaords are available with semi and fully weighted keys, but these are generally MIDI (Musical Instrument Digital Interface) controllers. A good MIDI controller will run nearly the same price as the lowest end digital piano, but will likely have the added advantage of nearly a real piano feel. The only potential drawback to a MIDI controller is it's lack of built in sounds. Unless it is being used with a software sampler such as Gigastudio, Halion, etc. you will need to buy an external sound module such as the Alesis Nanopiano (an excellent module, used to own one), for roughly $200 to $300 dollars. These modules will though, generally give you far superior sound to any standard keyboard on the market, due to the increased memory allocated to the samples. Like mp3 files, the larger the size, the better the sound quality, as less of the natural overtones are lost in the processes of recording and compression. In my own personal experience, having grown up with an upright acoustic piano in the house, owned a full size Korg stage (digital) piano used primarily for composing, as well as a couple of low end keyboards, one with the addition of the Nanopiano -- being a guitarist as well, I think you would truly appreciate the feel and response of fully weighted keys, particularly if you play an acoustic guitar often. Spring loaded keys have always felt a bit loose and sloppy to me, no matter how long I play, though I find you do eventually adjust a bit. Weighted keys give a pleasing tactile feel, and do allow for a greater range of expression, though, in another excellent point of Chuck's -- though most keyboards are to some degree "touch sensitive" increasing in volume slightly the harder the keys are struck, all but samples for the best synthesizers such as Akai and programs such as Gigastudio, generally lack velocity layers, multiple samples for each note recorded at different attacks. Volume is not the same thing as velocity, and you will hear that in most keyboards. Picking or striking a note with more force, causes it to reach it's peak (widest) envelope much more quickly. Think of the characteristic sound most notably made by opening a wah pedal. As to range of keys, to the best of my knowledge, even the best keyboards generally only sport a range of seventy-six keys, basically omitting a full octave, though these are likely to be keys seldom used outside of extreme examples of classical music. Most good MIDI contollers do offer a full range of eighty-eight keys (which will generally approach or equal the width of a piano). Finally, as Chuck also noted, if you have the space, used pianos are often available at little to even no cost. Often times they are in good, functional shape, though people simply don't want to engage in the hassle of having to move one to a new residence, and thus often times one can be found for the potentially small expense of moving the instrument yourself. Having much past experience in the moving business, I know what a hassle it can be to move one, but there often are people who are very motivated to be rid of such a heavy and space consuming instrument. Great deals are often abundant.
    Well, I hope this gives you a better idea of the pro and cons, and the many available options. I certainly understand the frustration of trying to achieve a realistically playing and sounding solution on a moderate budget and in a reasonable amount of space. Please feel free to ask if you have any additional questions I could potentially answer regarding your decision. Keep on playing. Have a great day. :)
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,301, Reputation: 7692
    Expert
     
    #7

    May 16, 2006, 06:18 AM
    Thank you Thomas, I am not up on all of the electric pianos, we have one in our studio, but we merely found one that had the touch of a real piano.
    Of course we have real pianos also.

    We often do a "keyboard" class , a group class for young people over the summer, no matter what type of keyboard, And in the end for a beginning piano player, even a 40 dollar walmart keyboard could get them started.

    ( and they have ear phone attachment that can make a parent very happy at home)

    In the end a lot of parents we deal with just can't afford a piano ( we teach in a very very depressed area) Even when we had the large school in Atlanta a large percentage of our students were on some level of scholarship program.
    Starman's Avatar
    Starman Posts: 1,308, Reputation: 135
    -
     
    #8

    May 17, 2006, 01:11 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas1970
    Hi Starman,
    Well, I hope this gives you a better idea of the pro and cons, and the many available options. I certainly understand the frustration of trying to achieve a realistically playing and sounding solution on a moderate budget and in a reasonable amount of space. Please feel free to ask if you have any additional questions I could potentially answer regarding your decision. Keep on playing. Have a great day. :)
    You have been very helpful. Especially the part about the pianos people what removed from their homes. I will definitely look into that.

    Here are some additional questions that you or Chuck might be able to help me with.
    At what price range does a decently-sounding keyboard usually start? That is one with the full set of piano keys. I see supposed customers on the internetpraising some of these lower cost ones to high heaven. How much value should one give such testimonials? Can I get better deals over the Internet? If so, what internet site would you recommend? Is there a volume control in order to make the lead part of the song stand out above the accompaniment?

    Thanks again!
    Thomas1970's Avatar
    Thomas1970 Posts: 856, Reputation: 131
    Senior Member
     
    #9

    May 17, 2006, 05:07 AM
    Hi Starman,
    I guess it's kind of hard to gauge the validity of peoples' testimonials, sort of like choosing the wood, body shape or pickups of a guitar. People have different tastes and standards. I can tell you that even the cheapest Yamahas nowadays are generally known to have an excellent grand piano. Not wanting or being able to pay a lot, I bought mine for $150 in Walmart, and I'm relatively happy with it at this time -- though I own three quality guitars which are my primary instruments, so I guess I mind a little less in that regard. I never perform or play in a band, so owning a more professional instrument wasn't really a huge concern in that regard either. Yamaha keyboards are generally a reasonable buy at any price. On the other hand, many people rave about Casio keyboards, but I personally have always found the sound a bit brash and tinny. If you are looking to save money while starting, there is absolutely no harm in purchasing whatever sounds good to your ear; but if you do plan on staying with it, and can afford it at this time, it's probably worthwhile to initially buy a better quality instrument. Ultimately, the sound will be more pleasing, and learning on weighted keys will probably accelerate your learning in some regards, providing much more sensitivity and tactile feedback. As far as individual volume controls, my Yamaha YPT-300 does have them, programmable from the LED display, though I am not sure how common this is in keyboards in general, particularly lower cost ones. Though it is really hard to say, if you want a keyboard with an all around decent sound, not just piano -- which is the primary emphasis on lower end models -- as well as a bit more control and versatility over things such as volume, I'd have to estimate around $500 to $600, but this is probably very subjective to the brand as well as the dealer. Overall, I would say that better deals are available over the Internet, because they generally ship directly from warehouses, eliminating the overhead cost of maintain a store and a large, knowledgeable staff -- though this might mean it may be more difficult to get adequate answers to any questions you might have if you're not fairly set on a particular name or model. Though I am not overly fond of them, if you live in the United States and have a Guitar Center near you, wait for one of their near weekly "sales" and you can probably pick up a pretty good deal. If you haggle with them, you can usually get them to reduce the price fairly easily. If you don't have one near you, here is their website:


    Musician's Friend


    By all means, check their website before considering purchasing in their store, as they sometimes tend to inflate the store price a bit, the main reason you can usually cut them down. If you do purchase from their site, be careful of anything that has the word "blem" in the title. That means it is blemished, cosmetically damaged and probably a factory second. If you don't mind a ding or two, you can probably save a decent amount on one of these. Ebay is also a good place to look, and also has many factory second instruments, and the seller is likely to be more honest about the actual flaw(s). If you buy a factory second though, it is considered a "used" instrument and will not come with a manufacturer's warranty. If you want the absolute best quality, price and service on the net, I feel you probably can't go wrong with Zzounds. They have an excellent reputation, and are probably one of the best on the net. A keyboard with a full set of 88 keys and built-in sounds will generally start at about just under $1000 dollars. If you are looking for an instrument with a full set of weighted keys and a well above average sound at a still reasonable price, I feel the Kurzweil SP88X is definitely worth considering. They are considered to have one of the best piano sounds in the business. Here it is at Zzounds for $849 dollars, free shipping included:

    Kurzweil SP88X 88-Key Stage Piano (Fully Weighted) - zZounds.com

    You can also buy a blemished one at the Musician's Friend site for $722.49, again, free shipping included. The only potential drawback with this instrument is the lack of built-in speakers, being a stage piano. Thus, you will need to purchase monitors (high-quality speakers), plug it into an amp, or the cheapest solution, use computer speakers possessing a subwoofer, which is what I did with my Korg. On some sites this is listed as a controller, be aware though that most controllers have no built in sounds, they are just the actual keyboard and electronics by themselves. If the Kurzweil interests you at all, there is a link to a good sound demo on the Zzounds page. Good luck in your search. I'm here if you have any other questions I could help you with. Take care. :)
    Starman's Avatar
    Starman Posts: 1,308, Reputation: 135
    -
     
    #10

    May 18, 2006, 11:23 PM
    Thanks for the excellent information I copied onto my wordpad for future reference.

Not your question? Ask your question View similar questions

 

Question Tools Search this Question
Search this Question:

Advanced Search

Add your answer here.


Check out some similar questions!

I'm learning [ 4 Answers ]

Hi I've just started wrestling and I'm not the best any advice

English E-learning [ 1 Answers ]

I am planing to do high studies in one of the english language fields.Are there any universities that can offer E-learning , if so please inform me about the fees and the courses which are available in these universities .

Learning Polish [ 1 Answers ]

Does anyone know of some online learn Polish courses that are free, for people who speak English? Also, does anyone know of any INTERESTING learn Polish courses or books that are not accessed over the internet and you pay for (ie. I don't want to pay for course that is accessed only on the net)? ...

Three dachshunds learning to get along [ 2 Answers ]

I have a question regarding my dachshund situation at home. I would like to know if anyone has any suggestions on getting three dachshunds to live in harmony. Two days ago we brought in a precious girl rescue dachshund to join our two boy dachshunds. The girl is about nine years old and is a...


View more questions Search