[beebeeson]

hello

I apologise in advance if this is a bit of an essay but I am at my wit's end. I have read quite a few threads in this forum with similar problems, but none of them are as compliacted as my pug.

I have a ten month old pug who has been living with me and my partner for the past four months. We got him when he was six months, and although I was prepared to be doing a lot of cleaning and training, I didn't realise it would be this bad.

generally I feel as if my pug is trying to control me and become the leader of the household. I live in an apartment on the third floor, and I suffer with a chronic bad back, so my pug uses a litter tray, which he goes to every time he needs to use the toilet and he is always praised and sometimes gets a treat if he does. He does go on regular walks outside and to the park and will go on grass and concrete happily.

however, when it comes to going in his crate, it is a different story. For the first two months, he had constantly messed in his bed and would lay in it and eat it. I would get up in the morning, wash his crate and have to bathe him because he was absolutely plastered. Then soon he seemed to get the idea that messing his crate was getting him nowhere and he started to have dry nights for awhile.

instead of messing, he started barking. He barked from 5am until 12 midday until his voice became hoarse. I could not go into the living room to have breakfast and go about my day because I had to wait for silence. So we bought a training aid that emits an ultrasonic noise when he barks. Unfortunately, as soon as we started using it, although the barking stopped, the messing started again. And within the last two weeks, he has started barking again, but not as bad as he used to.

every morning, I have to get up, clean his crate and bathe him. I don't understand why he is doing this. The crate is very small, small enough for him to stand and lay down but there is no room for a poo corner. He urinates and defecates in it and will lay in it. By the morning, he is absolutely covered and I am sick of having to clean him because it is repulsive. I KNOW that he is capable of holding it over night, but he chooses not to. If I put him in the crate for ten minutes to have a shower, he will mess in it. He is not allowed free reign of the house, or even the living room because the last time he was left free in the living room, he climbed onto the sofa and urinated and pooped all over it and was laying in it wagging his tail when I came into the room.

during the first two months he lived with us, he would bite me, pretend to have seizures when he didn't want to do something and if I ignored him, he would vomit or defecate on my feet. He attacked me several times while out in public. This behaviour has sort of stopped. He still whines and barks if I leave the room, even if there is someone else there with him. I can't go anywhere without him having a tantrum. He will stand in random positions in the room and stare at me, waiting for attention, and if I ignore him long enough, he will urinate as if to try and get attention. Sometimes he will go into his crate to toilet as if expecting an reaction out of me. He has learned that I will look at him if he is eating something to make sure it is not dangerous, so he will stand near me and smack his chops to get eye contact.

also, recently, he has started screaming and throwing fits when I bathe him. I have had claw marks down my chest and legs where he has tried to climb out of the bath to get away from the shower. It is not because the water is too hot or too hard, he has just decided he doesn't want to be bathed anymore and I am running out of options because he NEEDS to be bathed every morning.

because he keeps messing in his crate, his back thighs are balding and are covered in severe rashes. I want to change his behaviour because it is depressing me and it is making him ill. Very soon I will have a full time job and he will have to be in the crate while I am away but if this is going to continue, it is going to make his bald patches worse. I won't have time to bathe him every morning. Generally, I am sick of him and am considering selling him, so this is my last resort to find some help. I have had a dog trainer round and followed several dog training guides but nothing has worked and although he makes small progress, he always goes back on it within a week.

I am going to get him castrated as now he is older, he has started chasing es and has been harassing larger dogs. He had a fight wth a large hound on christmas day and I am now wary about letting him off the lead.

he is the first pug I have owned and I have never had a puppy before, only older dogs that were adopted.

if anyone can help, I will really appreciate it and many thanks in advance.

[Lucky098]

Wow... Sounds like you have a problem child... I have come across dirty dogs before... Living in an apartment is going to make it harder to stop this behavior. Currently I have a rescue dog that will potty in her crate every night... Every day she is covered in her own feces and the crate is plastered with her feces. If she doesn't poo, she pees... sometimes its both. Both I think she is suffering from Separation Anxiety and possibly claustrophobia.

Its going to be very hard to diagnose a behavioral problem over the internet... To get a better judgement, you have to watch their patterns...

Do you by chance have a balcony? If so, there is a Potty pad that looks and resembles grass... It can be used for indoors as well, but if you have the option of having this little dog go outside, use it.

Where did you get your dog? From a rescue? Shelter? Pet store? A friend? Sometimes when dogs come from dirty environments they become dirty dogs. Some of the times, dirty dogs are created by dirty mama dogs... A lot of the times, dirty dogs are developed by people. Your dog has learned that going potty in his crate has become expectable. I know you don't want to live in your house with a dirty, stinky dog.. but think about it. You already said he's trying to get your attention... Every time he goes potty in his crate, he gets your attention by a bath. He may not be liking the bath anymore because its becoming too much. If you do need to bathe him every day, I did come across a wonderful shampoo that cleans the hair, but also moisturizes the skin. Its called Septiderm-V Skin Care.

Instead of allowing your dog to stand and stare at you for attention, make him lay by your feet. Don't give him attention... just make him lay by your feet. Put him on a leash if you have to. But make him lay down. I'm not sure if you have tried any of these techniques, but a good way to win Top Dog with dogs is making your pup do things for every day necessities... like eating. You're going to have to do a lot of obedience with him.. and not just the run of the mill sit and stay... Hes going to have to sit... and WAIT for his food. Sit and WAIT for a leash to be put on.. Sit and WAIT to go into his kennel. Give him a bed, and that is the only bed he is allowed on. If he gets nothing... then he gets nothing. As far as him pooping all over the place in protest to you not paying attention to him... Ignore it. When he goes potty in the house, redirect him to something else IMMEDIATELY. THEN clean it when he is not around. Any time he does something you don't like.. Redirect him and show him something else. He will learn that those behaviors are giving him no attention... but something else is.

As far as eating his feces... give him the Deter. If that doesn't work, you can use Meat Tenderizer and Pineapple also.

I'm not a big advocate of it... but sometimes a remote trainer is needed. If scolding him is not enough and he's not learning that there is a consequence, then you might need more. Please talk to a trainer who is familure with remote trainers before getting one... Use the wrong way can be considered inhumane.

As far as the other dog issue... I wouldn't worry about it right now. You have more important things on your hands right now. You can always introduce new things as he gets better and work from there.

I would HIGHLY recommend going to see a behaviorist,. NOT a trainer and definitely not a vet. A behaviorist will be able to asses your dog in its own environment. Ever watch It's Me Or The Dog? She's a pretty good behaviorist and does come up with a lot of great ideas. She had an episode of pugs behaving badly not too long ago.

The biggest thing that is going to help you is stick to your guns. Make him do stuff. If he doesn't preform, he doesn't get anything.

ANOTHER THING before I wrap up... when he does make a mistake, do you let him watch you clean up? Or do you send him away? Also... Don't just pawn your dogs bad behaviors onto someone else. That dog will end up being bounce from home to home until he ends up in the shelter and deemed unadoptable. The dog only has to be returned once for them to be put down. Shelters want to adopt out perfect dogs... not problems.

I am fortunately in the same boat as you. I adopted a little Pit Bull from a shelter 5 months ago. She is a horrible little dog.. She is going to get a remote trainer for her horrible habits.

If you have any questions.. Who knows... we could very be in this together with our "bad dogs" :)

[beebeeson]

Hello, and thanks for your reply, advice is so valuable to me right now :p

I got my pug from a KC registered breeder, who breeds bichon fries, pugs and yorkies. I assumed that she keeps her dogs in kennels outdoors, which may explain his behaviour, but then when he first came to live with us, he knew exactly to go on the paper we put down for him and he had very few accidents.

I have taught him a lot of tricks such as sit, stay, shake paw and others and he will do them quickly although he does have days of selective hearing. He has to wait and sit in front of his bowl of food while I eat my breakfast in the morning and he has to sit and wait for his leash to be put on etc. etc. etc. I do a lot of obedience training with him, and his recall is flawless every time. He is a VERY smart dog, scarily smart in fact. He gets nothing for free; he has to do a trick or a command for everything, but it doesn't seem to make any difference.

We used to make him sit in his old bed instead of pacing round the room and for awhile it did work and he seemed to calm down but his old bed became so heavily stained that we had to throw it out. All he has now is his crate but he would rather lay on the cold floor than go to sleep in it unless it has some bedding in there. I've been removing the bedding at night and leaving the storage heater on in the room so that he doesn't freeze but it makes no difference as he will pee and poop and lay in the puddle of it.

Sadly I don't have a balcony, but my living room is quite big. He uses a large flat tray that is waterproof and covered the bottom with a layer of newspaper. I think I may try using the grass pads and slowly make a complete transition to outside, but knowing him, it will take years to sort out. The way you describe your dog is exactly how I find him in the morning and I have to pick clumps of faeces out from between his toes where it is so ingrained.

When I take him out of his mess in the morning, I take him straight for the bath because it is so bad, I can't leave him laying in it so I have no choice but to give him the attention. Afterwards, he will have his breakfast and I will clean the crate while he eats. In a sense, he does watch me clean it out, and sometimes he will come over and try to climb in my lap while I am cleaning it so I make him sit nearby and wait until I'm done. Sometimes while he is sitting and waiting for anything, be it food or attention he has terrible trembles and his whole body shakes and he vibrates across the floor like a pull-string toy, and other times he sits there whinging. Sometimes I think the neighbours must think I'm murdering him with the noises he makes, it's awful.

I will look into seeing a behaviourist because my vet is useless and the dog trainer hasn't helped, I think you are right and he really needs a doggy psychologist because there is something very messed up going on inside his head.

It's frustrating because in every dog training book, they always say a puppy will not lay in its own faeces... well, that's not true!

Haha yes, birds of a feather flock together :D

[JudyKayTee]

A couple of things come to my mind - dogs don't have a thinking process which would involve faking seizures in order to get your attention. What does the Vet say about these seizures? If the Vet is "useless," find another Vet.

I find the ultrasonic devices to be cruel - they hurt the dog's ears. That's how they work.

Has the dog been Vet checked to see if he has physical problems which would explain his toileting habits and problems?

You are going to neuter him some time in the future? Why are you waiting - unless you don't want to put money into a dog you don't intend to keep.

I also see you putting a lot of energy into tricks/behaviors which would be meaningless to me - I don't care if my dog sits motionless in one spot for a lengthy period. I do care if she begs from the table. Are you sure you aren't expecting some unnatural behavior from the dog? Of course he trembles - from excitement.

I think the dog needs more attention than you are able to give him, maybe he thinks bad attention is better than no attention, you are attributing human characteristics to him (it appears you think this is you versus the dog) and you both might be happier if you find him a new home now, before his behavior is so bad that there is no hope for him.

[beebeeson]

JudyKayTee, my dog will roll onto his back and make gagging sounds whilst writhing his arms and legs because he doesn't want to walk up the stairs or he doesn't want to sit and wait for his collar to be put on. If I turn around and walk around, the room, he stands up and comes looking for me. I have seen the vet several times, and he has no illnesses or physical problems, is fit and healthy and is fed good quality food. He is very VERY intelligent, I have never known a dog to behave the way he does. The commands I have taught him have been for both fun and as a way of structuring his day. If he doesn't want to sit and wait while I place his dinner on the floor, he gets no dinner until he does.

Before I taught him these commands, he would run around my ankles screaming and he bit me on several occasions, so although you may see them as pointless, from my POV they have been a great help. If you're happy to feed your dog and give it things for free, that's your choice. I expect good behaviour, not unnatural behaviour from my dog. Aggression/vomiting/faked seizures is not something I have taught him to do.

My dog is with me all day almost every day. The only time he is not with company is when I go to shower or shop, or at night when we go to bed. I put a lot of time, money and effort into caring for my pet, and I think your words are unjustified.

If I did not want to put money into this, I wouldn't have spent a long time researching his breed and forking out my life savings to buy a good quality pedigree, nor would I pay premium pet insurance each month. As for the ultrasonic device, it's either that or eviction. I find your reply to be lacking in advice.

[JudyKayTee]

JudyKayTee, my dog will roll onto his back and make gagging sounds whilst writhing his arms and legs because he doesn't want to walk up the stairs or he doesn't want to sit and wait for his collar to be put on. if i turn around and walk around, the room, he stands up and comes looking for me. i have seen the vet several times, and he has no illnesses or physical problems, is fit and healthy and is fed good quality food. he is very VERY intelligent, i have never known a dog to behave the way he does. the commands i have taught him have been for both fun and as a way of structuring his day. if he doesn't want to sit and wait while i place his dinner on the floor, he gets no dinner until he does.

before i taught him these commands, he would run around my ankles screaming and he bit me on several occasions, so although you may see them as pointless, from my POV they have been a great help. if you're happy to feed your dog and give it things for free, that's your choice. i expect good behaviour, not unnatural behaviour from my dog. aggression/vomiting/faked seizures is not something i have taught him to do.

my dog is with me all day almost every day. the only time he is not with company is when i go to shower or shop, or at night when we go to bed. i put a lot of time, money and effort into caring for my pet, and i think your words are unjustified.

if i did not want to put money into this, i wouldn't have spent a long time researching his breed and forking out my life savings to buy a good quality pedigree, nor would i pay premium pet insurance each month. as for the ultrasonic device, it's either that or eviction. i find your reply to be lacking in advice.

You posted on a public forum, asking for advice. And that's what you got. You may not like to be criticized but I gave you advice - all of my dogs have been troubled rescues and I've never had a problem with any of them.

As far as your dog faking seizures to get your attention - again, dogs are not able to think in those terms. Likewise lots of people "fork out" money on pedigreed dogs (I have no idea what the pet insurance has to do with anything. My dogs are also and always have been insured) and I find the ultrasonic device to be cruel. That's my opinion - an opinion you got because you posted on a public board.

As far as your passive/aggressive statement - "if you're happy to feed your dog and give it things for free, that's your choice - I'm not the one posting here because of a problem dog. My dogs are 135# and 95#. I weigh 105#. I run the show. They don't. Maybe they behave because they want praise. They don't perform tricks in order to be awarded, that's true. I certainly DO "give them things" for free.

On the other hand - they aren't "faking seizures," rolling in poop, I don't need to send them ultrasonic signals to stop them from barking, they aren't aggressive toward other dogs or people and they aren't doing whatever else your dog is doing. My parents had multiple dogs; I've had multiple dogs, usually 2 and 3 at a time. They all died of old age or incurable illness. I never thought about rehoming a single one of them. I've never lived with a dog that bit me or tried to bite me.

Not a single one (or combination) EVER drove me to desperation - your word.

So maybe something I'm doing works for me - and my dogs?

You think my replies are lacking in advice; I think there is plenty of advice. You just don't want to hear it.

Maybe you addressed this and maybe you didn't - how many dogs have you owned in your life?

[Lucky098]

I have dealt with dogs like your pug... It's a complete mystery where the behaviors come from. The only thing I can think of, is just because you have a paper stating your dog is purebred, doesn't necessarily mean your dog is well bred. Some behaviors come from genetics (inbred)... Some behaviors come from their surroundings as a small puppy. If you happened to have bought this dog from a big breeder, then you could have possibly bought from a small time puppy mill, which would solve a lot of questions. And there is the other question of, did you get the dog from a pet store?

However; there is the possibility that you have just gotten a rotten egg. It is possible and can happen in the dog world. Please know you're not alone in this struggle with a bad dog. Bad dogs do exist.. and they can be fixed, so to speak.

Rolling in the poo... THe only thing that can come to mind is that he is wanting to get rid of the smell of humans from his body. I have seen this quite a bit. I own hunting dogs, and every single one of them will roll in manure to blend themselves into their surroundings. I help my mom run a small rescue, and during the summer when its bath day, some of the dogs will leave the wash tub, and immediately roll in horse manure. I also own a horse who will roll any time you touch her... it doesn't matter if its with a brush, your hand, or simply putting blanket on her... She will roll. Which is why I believe that your dog is rolling in poo to get rid of the scent of humans. I have witnessed it FIRST HAND and its always been the more strong willed, assertive dogs. Some how you're going to have to make his feces unappealing. I know that adding either meat tenderizer or pineapple to his diet will cause the poo to taste bad. You said he eats it? Well, that would stop one thing. Maybe making it taste bad will deter him from wanting to smell like it.

As for your dog acting like an idiot... I'm not to sure about faking seziures... But if you said the Doc. Check him out and said he's OK... then we'll just have to go by that... Any time he starts acting like an idiot, what do you ? Do you walk away? Do you plead with him? I need to know. Answer will have a different conclusion.

As for the other bad behaviors... I need to know your reactions to it. Correcting bad behaviors come down to everyone who is involved with this dog... How you react when you see him do what he does... What type of punishment you may give him... it all plays key factors in behavior modification.

I have been around dogs my entire life. I have seen a lot of horrible things that these guys can do. I also know that they can be fixed and become wonderful pets. Nothing is going to be a quick fix... it all takes time. My adopted pittie does a lot of bad things that I haven't seen... I am going to work with her and hopefully find her a new home, because the result is... she wants to be center of attention, and I just can't do that here in a home with 4 other dogs that are perfectly happy with their routine. She needs a home where she's a single dog.. I think she'll blossom that way.

Training a dog, especially re-wiring their thinking, is always going to be trial and error. No dog is the same. Not all training techniques work for every dog... and every problem always has a different solution. Which is why I never accuse the person of being a bad dog owner if they're seeking for advise.

[Aurora_Bell]

I am not an expert, but I have had some experience with troubled dogs, I will give you some advice that has worked for me. It may not work for you, but I can see you are at your wits end.
First off, your dog seems to have aggression, this is not something he has learned, it is in his genetics. You can try behaviour modification and aversion. The first step I learned with behaviour mod is to make your dog look to you for everything he wants or needs. Meaning if he wants to get petted, he sits, if he wants to get fed, he sits, if he wants out side, he sits. As far as feeding your dog, I would try small bits of kibble at a time, take 4-5 pieces, ask him to sit, reward with the kibble. If he does not sit, he gets none. He will not starve himself. He will get tired of this game, and he will get hungry and sit when he is being asked. A friend of mine who teaches behaviour modification, had an extremley inter dog aggressive Chow, the dog is now happy and in a home with 3 other dogs.
The more commands a dog knows, the easier they are to train. He then knows that you are master, and food=life, and YOU control that. Seems drastic and a bit cruel, but I too was at wits end with an aggressive mis-behaving dog.
I had a shizu who would shake un controlably when we would try to put her out side, she always knew she would get extra cuddles when we thought she might be cold, she had a skin condition so we had to keep her hair cut very short. I don't know if they have the thought pattern to "fake" things or not, but I do know that dogs can remember that certain actions receive certain re-actions...
There are vets, and trainers who specialize in behaviour modification, that would be someone I would seek out, not just a regular trainer but someone who specializes in specifics.

Please don't sell your dog, God knows where he will end up, who knows if the next person will be as patient as you, and who knows what will happen to him once he is gone.
If he was bought from a registered breeder, you should be able to return and get your money back.
It seems like your problem child has more issues then can be understood over the internet. I know my vet also told me about a medication they can prescribe for aggressive animal, to this I know NOTHING about. But maybe it is worth looking into?

[Sariss]

It's a long shot, but I wonder if him getting so worked sends him into a seizure episode, and he isn't actually faking them (because dogs brains don't work that way), but actually HAVING them, and having them when he is left in the crate, causing him to release his bowels.

[beebeeson]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Firstly, about my buying a pedigree, I'm in the uk and I'm not sure of what standards the american kc has for breeders but I chose a kc registered breeder because I wanted to be sure that I was buying from someone with a good reputation who cared for their animals and gave them the best possible start in life. We have had dogs from kc registered breeders before and had no problems. The woman I purchased from worked from home, it wasn't a puppy store... I'm not even sure we have puppy stores over here, I've never seen a puppy sold in a shop. I went to her home and met her dogs and saw where they lived. It did not look suspicious at all, but perhaps I am wrong and she is operating a puppy mill, she does own a lot of land. She is a member of the pug dog club too, and there were quite a few testimonies to her breeding kennel.

I contacted her several months ago asking to return my dog and for a refund, but she said that she would not refund me and that she did not want the dog returned as it would take her a long time to rehome him and was not cost effective. That to me sounds dodgy, so obviously I have kept him. I don't want to rehome him as when he is a good boy, he has a lovely personality and is very playful.

Secondly, about the rolling in scent, I think this true. Within the last few days, he has had a couple of dry nights which were met with over the top praise and treats and it seems to be making a little difference. Instead he has taken to rubbing himself on my clothing. If I drop some laundry on the floor, he has started rolling on it and rubbing his body on my legs and on my partner's lap. He used to do this when he was smaller. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with his rolling in poo. He hasn't eaten his poo for a couple of days, but if he does one, he will sit several feet from it and gaze at it and look at me occasionally as if waiting for a cue to say he can go eat it. It's very funny when he does, but obviously it gets picked up before he can. I will try adding stuff to his food to make his poop taste nasty, hopefully that will help.

His dry nights started after I tried a new technique. I have been ignoring him when he stands around me for attention, but as soon as he goes into his crate, I praise him and occasionally I go over and pet him and play a game. I am trying to put positive reinforcement with the crate, and it appears to be working so far but I don't want to celebrate yet as he has gone back on his training many times before.

Lastly, about the seizures and his behaviour. When he first had a seizure, I wasn't sure what to do, and I held him still and called for my partner for help and after when he had stopped, I gave him a hug and petted him. I am sure that my doing this gave him the idea that shaking would get him attention and it worked several times until I caught him getting up and wagging his tail. After that, I have been ignoring him and leaving the room every time he does it. For awhile he kept doing it every time we walked up the stairs but I kept going anyway and now he seems to be out of it although he does have moments where he will try it. I'm not joking about this at all as it is very serious and the first few times it happened, I was terrified that he might be very ill. Although people may say that dogs don't have that thought process, he must have learned previously that seizures equals hugs and it worked for him.

Normally when he misbehaves I tell him NO in a deep voice that is slightly raised. On occasion I have given him a tap on his nose when he has ignored my previous nos, and I have tapped him on the side if he is being particularly naughty. I've never seriously hit my dog, even though at times I really feel like it as he has driven me mad. He will listen to me when I tell him off though and runs straight into his crate. On the other hand, he won't listen to my partner at all even when she uses the same tone of voice as me.

As I said before, the dogs I have lived with have been adopted from breeders and already adults. The shiba inu who lives with my family (I moved out to live with my partner) is a lovely girl who has none of the problems my pug has. Her personality is completely different. My guess is that while something may work for others, it may not work for me or other people with the same problems. As far as I can see, pugs' personalities are quite overwhelming and very different to the dogs I have lived with before. If I end up rehoming him, I think that my mother in law may want to adopt him.