How do we,who need to take medications daily,stay compliant,(take them as prescribed) and why do we go off them, knowing the results if we do.

asking

I liked that post.

By the way, if you select something you want to quote and then click the icon that shows text in a cartoon balloon, it shows as a quote. Same way you made red and blue text.

I don't know where contentment lies, in our hearts, I guess. Usual answer. And in all the places you listed and more--in the first sunlight falling on frosty ground at sunrise. But contentment is mostly ephemeral. Being in withdrawal from fentanyl is no recipe for contentment, I've noticed.

I know some people can choose to be contented, regardless of their circumstances. Lots of new age advice basically says to ignore your externals and do that. The Secret, Byron Katie. I find it a bit weird. What about reality? Still, there's some truth in it if you don't take it too far. My older sister is losing it and says weird things and hates me, though she used to dote on me. So I can brood about that or just say, so be it and watch the sun rise.

Someone spills tomato sauce on my carpet, doesn't apologize, and jokes while I clean it up. I can choose to take offense, or I can choose contentment. What's the "right" answer?
Asking

asking

I feel a lot of shame that I can't do as much as other people, can't work as hard, need to rest all the time, feel constant pain, and can only function with medication. I feel shame that I have moods I can't control when I run out of the drug. That I get panicky when I can't renew my prescription and the folks at the pharmacy give me this knowing look and talk to me like I'm a street person trying to scam my fix. The medication is just one of my shames. But it's a potent one.

Maybe it would be easier to resist that tendency to feel shame if we could pin down where the message comes from that mental health and moods are shameful, that not being able to function without drugs is shameful. I know it's not entirely something I invented by myself, even though my friends are quick to tell me there's no reason to feel ashamed. The message comes from out there, too. I'd like to be able to identify it when it's coming in, maybe shunt it aside.

Some of the message comes from the war on illegal drugs. Just say no, etc. And, also, I remember when Reagan closed most of the mental health facilities in California. It seemed to send a message that people didn't need or deserve help, that they just needed to pull themselves together.

Okay, I need to start my day. I feel as though you brought this thread back around to the topic you started and that's good, KBC.

KBC

just trying to get the quote thing down

Got it Thank you

KBC

Exactly where trying to stay on meds is such a challenge,sometimes I feel justified and correct in my need for the meds, other times I am so ashamed, I would rather hide from everyone and self loath.

Shame is the factor I see that kills my spirit(on a depressive mode) and is non existent(on a manic mode)I have been through many years of therapy,trying to learn as much as possible about bi-polar disorder and human psychotherapy(Being a Gemini, I am an INFOMANIC)never enough information for the likes of me.

Shame I learned from a close friend(counciler/therapist) in a treatment facility for addictions.
Kevin taught me about Toxic shame and typical shame,I probably can't quote his words or what I truly learned, but I did understand the very base of my shames.(and how to combat them correctly)

Is this something I can spell out in here, not right now anyway, I am medicated to the hilt today and I am losing cohesion to my thinking. I'll write more about this soon,

Ken

asking

I look forward to seeing what you have to say. I know the feeling about cohesion. I hope you equilibrate soon. I have some more things to say, too, but am neglecting my work and need to focus some time there. More shame!
A

KBC

First thought on Toxic shame from Bradshaw( a writer I beleive in thoroughly)

"Because of its perverbal origins, shame is difficult to define. It is a healthy human power which can become a true sickness of the soul. There are two forms shame: nourishing shame and toxic/life- destroying shame. As toxic shame, it is an excruciatingly internal experience of unexpected exposure. It is a deep cut felt primarily from the inside. It divides us from ourselves and from others. In toxic shame, we disown ourselves. And this disowning demands a cover-up. Toxic shame parades in many garbs and get-ups. It loves darkness and secretiveness. It is the dark secret aspect of shame which has evaded our study. Because toxic shame stays in hiding and covers itself up, we have to track it down by learning to recognize its many faces and its many distracting behavioral cover-ups." -- John Bradshaw

"Healthy shame is an emotion which signals us about our limits. Like all emotions, healthy shame is an energy-in- motion. Like all emotions it moves us to get our basic needs met. One of our basic needs is structure. We ensure our structure by developing a boundary system within which we safely operate. Structure gives our lives form. Boundaries and form offer us safety and allow a more efficient use of energy. Healthy shame keeps us grounded. Healthy shame is the basic metaphysical boundary for human beings. Healthy shame gives us permission to be human."

Toxic shame needs to be sharply distinguished from guilt (guilt can be healthy or toxic). Healthy guilt is the emotional core of our conscience. It is emotion which results from behaving in a manner contrary to our beliefs and values. Guilt presupposes internalized rules and develops later than shame. According to Erikson, the third stage of psychosocial development is the polar balance between initiative and guilt. This stage begins after age three. Guilt is developmentally more mature than shame. Guilt does not reflect directly upon one's identity or diminish one's sense of personal worth. It flows from an integrated set of values.

KBC

Those quotes probably require more explanation and discussion, and I look forward to both soon,

Ken

asking

Just now I was listening to the morning news and they were talking about bailing out the many people who have defaulted on mortgages, as a way to save the financial institutions that took on high-risk loans. The newscaster compared the government intervention to "welfare" and "giving them methadone," as if methadone were a drug only given to bail out people of low moral character. It was clearly meant to denigrate anyone on methadone. Since I am on methadone to control pain caused by a broken back/spinal fusion, I felt attacked. Another kick in the gut. I feel angry even though it was not directed at me personally--obviously. But that kind of thing is WHERE the shame comes from. I want to start explicitly identifying where it comes from at least. It is not all internal. Whether it's toxic or not, I don't know...I still don't entirely understand the difference.

I am interested in the distinctions Bradshaw (and you) outline. Between guilt and shame, toxic and healthy in each case. Yesterday I read around a little bit about toxic vs healthy shame and I think I am beginning to understand it. Examples help. I can see an example of toxic shame in my boyfriend who was often shamed by his father when he was young. So, as I understand it, when he feels toxic shame, he fails to act to correct what he has done wrong because he cannot bear to acknowledge it. Right?

Needless to say, I cannot think of any examples of toxic shame in myself because I am unaware of it! However, I found myself doing something recently for no reason I can explain. (A good friend confronted me, and I was very upset by what she hinted to me about myself. This is someone who has never before criticized me in any way and she was completely kind and gentle. But still I was rattled because when she asked me why I did X, I couldn't really say.) I didn't hurt anyone except myself. The question was why I would help someone who had treated me badly...

KBC

To take this further along this line of discussion, I am going to post a new topic in addictions,because this directly deals with it.(hopefully sticky also) for Toxic shame/guilt.

Rick just posted a new guideline to correctly keeping posts directed towards their questions, and we are going further from meds now.

I'll see if I can add the new post here.

Ken

asking

I didn't realize I was off topic. One of my main points is that I don't have an addiction problem with opioids--at least that is what my doctors tell me. If I did, I don't think I would need to set up my computer to remind me to take the medication... I am talking about things that make me NOT want to take my medication (the thread topic) and one of those causes is the external perception that anyone using pain medications is abusing them. Ironic that you should decide that my true topic is addiction.
Asking