OK I know everybody has this problem but this is really getting to me now! My waist part off my back is anoying me so much... it feels so tight and if I stretch my spine always makes poping noises but it seems the more I stretch the more I need to pop it... now I have to take tylenol pm every night to go to sleep... does anyone no what is wrong with my back or any site I can go to that will help me in some kind of way? I use to have the same problem with my neck but then it moved to my sholders then MY BACK! I can't keep takeing Tylenol all my life! PLEASE HELLP ME... I AM SO SERIOUS

( YOU SHOULD SEE ME DURING THE DAY, SOMETIMES WHEN IM WALKING IN THE STREETS I BEND OVER TO TOUCH MY TOES SO MY BACK CAN STRETCH A LITTLE AND PEOPLE JUST STARE AT ME LIKE I AM CRAZY!! ((((BUT I JUST can't HELP IT)))) PLEASE HELP

HI,
First, not all people have had this problem; I know I haven't, and I'm 64.
Next, have you heard about the report on Tylenol? You might want to check it out. There are some issues with taking it on a daily basis; and of course, this is always associated with how much you take.
Have you seen a Specialist? I do suggest you see a doctor, and maybe get referred to a specialist. There are tests that can determine what this is, and help can be obtained.
I do wish you the best, and good luck.

I know most will tell you a doctor will help you and you should have it checked. I am one of those who is not a "run to the doctor kinda person". I would check around and find a GOOD massage therapist. Not all are good and not all will be able to help. It sounds as if it started with neck muscles and as they got tighter they pulled the muscles lower and lower until it is in your lower back. I am sure the neck muscles are still tight also. Massage will certainly not hurt you. If you get a days relief afterwards, you will know it is muscular. You may have to go a couple times a week for a while for it to get better. It could be fixed the first or second time. Everyone is different. The doctor wanted to do surgery on my cousin, I paid for him to have massages and that was 3 yrs ago and he is still wonderful. I see it happen all of the time. Tight muscles can cause a terrific amount of pain, even cause one to have difficulty walking. After you are better, find a good yoga program and stick to it. Good luck

Yes, a good massage therapist can really do wonders, I am hoping Thomas1970 checks this out. But also, please do not rule out chiropractic treatment, which can work very well with message therapy.

Hi,
Excellent suggestions by everyone all around. Interestingly, the first thing that came to mind when when reading this, is a post of yours I responded to, not too far back, regarding abdominal pain. I believe there could be a correlation between the two on one of many distinct levels. It would be interesting to know whether the back pain began before or after both the abdominal pain, and the outset of a fairly regular regimen of Tylenol.
Please do follow Fredg's advice to as great an extent as possible. Acetaminophen, as with all NSAID's is very hard on the digestive track, liver and kidneys. Tylenol causes bleeding in the intestinal tract with every dose consumed. Extended regular use over many years carries other risks such as possible renal failure, long after the cessation of use. Acetaminophen carries the additional risk of combining to form a hepatotoxin (liver damaging substance) when consumed with alcohol. Tylenol PM, as well contains, of course, a sleep additive, which does have the potential to be highly addictive with regular, long-term use.
I would first wonder if your back pain isn't in fact sympathetic or referred, and somehow related to your undiagnosed abdominal cramps, or if in fact the visceral spasms or abdominal contractions aren't related to your use of Tylenol. It may well have to do with muscle guarding (proctective tightening) in your abdomen as well. This could cause postural misalignment throughout your entire body, among other things, causing your back to have work harder in counterbalancing your weight.
All the muscular pain you describe could be caused by tucking your stomach. Firstly, this would likely lead to some anterior (forward) rotation of your hips, shortening and compressing the lumbar spine (lower back). This would as well lead to some hyperextension of the neck (upward tilt of the head), and likely some tucking of the chin. All of this would be your body's attempt to remain plumb, keeping your weight evenly distributed over your center of gravity. But as well as compressing the lower back, this type of posture would put enormous stress on the splenius muscles in the back of the neck, and the trapezius muscles forming the upper shoulders. And as noted by Cassie, tension in any of the erector spinae muscles, the group of many supportive muscles that run the length of the spine, can cause widespread concomitant spasms up and down the lenth of the back.
Another thing that would help to know, is if, when you refer to back pain around your waist, you are referring to your true waist just below your ribs, as most people do take it to mean just above the beltline (top of pants). Though given that you are able to touch your toes, I am assuming that the pain is probably in your lumbar, and not thoracic spine. If in fact it is not due to what I mentiontioned above, or some more serious cause such as a spinal subluxation or other form of nerve impingement, I do find that a great deal of lumbar pain is due to another form of pelvic misalignment, a slight tilt, and can sometimes be readily relieved by simply rebalancing such.
One final, possibly related, thing to note here, is the remote possibility for a condition known as Reiter's syndrome (reactive arthritis), as well as another disorder called sacroileitis. Certain untreated bowel disorders can cause sacroileitis, inflammation of the immovable joints between the tail end of the spine and the (posterior) crests of the hips. Untreated UTI's and bowel disorders are leading causes of reactive arthritis, although the classic triad of symptoms is very distinct.
As far as the popping in your back, unless it is somehow causing you pain or discomfort, it is probably nothing to worry much about. It may well be that when you stretch, you are relieving enough pressure on the synovial fluid between the vertrbrae, that air bubbles are quickly forming and bursting. This is the classic "crunch" that anyone who has ever visited a chiropractor or cracked their knuckles is familiar with. This would be natural, and rarely, if ever, denotes anything that would cause you any need to worry. If in fact there is pain present, I would suspect a subluxation (misaligned vertebra) of sorts, and the sound could be caused by the bone slipping in or out of it's natural position.
In order to visit a massage therapist, you would first need to be cleared by your primary doctor regarding the abdominal pain, as no responsible massage therapist would work on you without first knowing the cause of such. Though I agree, as a massage therapist myself, the right practitioner could likely afford you a great deal of relief depending on the cause. As Cassie said, it's a matter of finding the right therapist. One with the appropriate training, and a personality and style that is in harmony with your body, your personal energies, and your stylistic therapeutic preferences. Massage is extremely subjective. A great deal of trust is involved, and not everyone connects well with every therapist. As well, some people prefer very deep and slightly more aggressive work, as opposed to the old "fluff and buff." It's all a matter of what works best for you. It may take many sessions initially, but lasting results can certainly be had. Just be aware though, you should never leave the office sore, due to a therapist overworking tissues in an effort to produce faster results. The more longstanding and serious the disorder, the longer it may take to heal and correct.
After being cleared of any serious or conflicting disorders, if you wish to go the therapeutic massage route, I personally would look into people with training in deep tissue work and myofascial release, perhaps even Rolfing (postural, movement work and fascial restructuring). Chiropractic work is agreeably, as well outstanding, and as also noted by J 9, an excellent complement to massage. And I would end by noting two of my favorite modalities -- accupuncture and moxabustion (the burning of the Mugwort plant directly over the accupoints, or on the ends of the needles themselves.)
Anyway, I hope this will be of some help. Let me know if you have any questions. :)

Some of the things you mentioned sounds familiar... about 2 months ago I use to work at a physical therapy office for 8 months (I was just an unexperienced aide) . They worked on me about 2 times. While I was laying down they did this thing when they put one hand under my spine and with there other hand she pressed on my right abdominom for about 10 minutes, my whole right side started twitching intensively and I had no control over it, the more I tried to stop the twitching the more it did so she just told me to try and relax... they didn't explain why because we were all just laughing and right after we went to work. But it felt so much better afterward, I felt so light and no pain any more, but then it slowly came back and now it is unbarable. I've tried mussle therapy but with this guy that had an office in our rehabilitaion office, this guy was huge he looked like a G I Joe or Johnny Bravo, blonde hair 6'2 and a very musclular body, anyway he did some kind of musle release and it didn't do as good as the other thing I was talking about but it made the pain really mild... he charges 80 dollars every half hour but he was really genorous to not charge the coworkers for sessions.
The abdominal pain is new, the back problems is about 10 months now, its just now getting unbareable. But my sister gave me some Vicodin(500mg) and ibuprofen(400mg) the day before I posted the abdominal pain and 3 days of takeing those twice a day when I stopped to see if the pain had worsened the pain was no longer there, I am only 18 so I don't see why I have these problems, I don't have insurance and I am already in debt with my sons hospital bills, and now am barely looking for a job, so do you think there is anything I can do myself without seeking medical treatment?
Yesturday Cassie said try the yoga so I went to the book store and bought a yoga cd and exercise yoga cards. And I posted another thread about me not feeling good and Jurplesman said I should try Hypoglycenlla Diet so I'm trying that but now I just feel low in energy. So I am taking any advice I can, and I do plan on going to the hospital if it gets to the point where I can't move hardly, so any suggestions?

While the diet you read about is good and a healthy diet, I would not consider it a cure. Also, if you live in the states, your sister gave you Vicodin, that is illegal, so be careful. Medications are presribed by weight and body size for the most part, so what is good for one person could be harmful to another.

You do not mention if there is fever involved.

If I were you, I would tend to listen to what Thomas1970 has to say, he makes all the sense in the world.

I said AFTER you are better get into a yoga program. Do not over stretch a muscle that is already hurting. I was not aware you had abdominal pain before. Everything is connected, I have know people that once one area of their body is fixed it is amazing how other parts start feeling better. You have gotten some good advice. If you have no insurance, get a massage, a massage will not hurt you, if that does nothing, see a doctor. If stretching your back helps, it sounds as though you are having muscular problems. BUT I am not doctor. I just know how expensive doctors and test can be. You can have a $1,000. Invested before you know it and that can just be the beginning. Doctors tend to give you pain pills and muscle relaxers and that only masks the problem, and then you can often make it worse by not feeling the pain. I am sure Thomas has worked on people that are doped up by medical doctors. Do not hesitate to go to the doctor if you do not get relief, it could be serious.

Hi,
Thank you for the additional information. It is certainly of some help.
Again, my first concern in reading your last post is the amount of analgesics being taken. I can certainly relate to your financial and insurance predicaments, as well as the degree of your discomfort. Though I would continue to be careful, not only in measuring and spacing out the doses, but mixing different drugs as well. Generally, it is not advisable to mix NSAIDs such as acetaminophen and ibuprofen. As well, you stated Vicodin, which is actually a mixture of acetaminophen and hydrocodone. You were in fact possibly receiving acetaminophen from two different sources, and this could possibly have triggered or accentuated some of your abdominal discomfort. Hydrocodone is a narcotic analgesic closely related to codeine and is regarded as potentially highly addictive, though this is likely what was responsible for most of the relief you report. It likely did little to treat the underlying cause of the pain, but it would have largely negated temporarily your brain's ability to process the neurological impulses of severe discomfort.
Other than that, the only possible link I could make offhand, given that your back pain preceded your abdominal discomfort, is perhaps some indeterminate irritation of the vagus nerve, the longest cranial nerve in the body, innervating nearly all the organs, including the abdominal viscera, and regulating many autonomic functions, such as stomach acid secretion and intestinal peristalsis.
I am very intrigued by what you describe having received for treatment in the physical therapist's office. I agree, this was likely a method of resetting your pelvis. If I were to guess, without actually seeing what was done, they were likely releasing a triggerpoint (tight, tender spot) in your iliopsoas muscle, on the front of your hip. What baffles me, is the dramatic reaction you describe. Though sensations of heat or vibration, and relief, are common with the release of such points, I suppose this could have taken some pressure off a branch of the femoral artery, or some related structure. Shortened psoas muscles are common, particularly in people with desk jobs, and this could certainly lead to intense lower back pain, due to altered posture and restricted patterns of movement. Once corrected, yoga may be very beneficial in maintaining proper elongation. Though to attempt certain postures now, if this is the cause, could lead to ligamental damage that would further destabilize the pelvis, increasing the stabilimentary workload on the back. Here is a good link explaining both the potential benefits, as well as the risks:

http://www.yogachicago.com/sep99/lizkoch.shtml

It does briefly explain some postures that may be beneficial in correcting this disorder, but also realize that one of the main intentions of yoga is to stimulate and massage the internal organs, and certain postures and breath techniques, probably do carry the possibility of temporarily increasing intra-abdominal pressure as well.
As to what you might look into for relief, I have a few ideas.
I do think it would be beneficial to receive some sort of professional care, if at all possible. First off, many massage schools run student clinics open to the public, at least at certain times of the year. Though these supervised students likely don't possess the knowledge and expertise to treat advanced conditions, they can still give you a fantastic relaxation massage, offering you a pleasant respite on occasion for very little cost.
Many alternative health care practitioners are very willing to barter as well. Don't be afraid to offer any skills, services, or even unneeded material goods that you have, that you think may be of interest or benefit to them. I have done this on a few occasions. Just the fact that you are in need, may be sufficient for them to offer lower cost services, and work within your financial ability, even if they don't advertise such. I used to receive a greatly reduced rate from my accupuncturist, even a free monthly treatment when he later began participating in a community health program run by a local church. I donated a 42 gallon bow front fish tank with stand to a local chiropractor, and later I received an unexpected treatment offer to waive any costs not covered by insurance. A tremendous deal which they graciously honored for the duration of my treatments. Currently, I am charged only $30 for visits to my naturopathic doctor, an extraordinary gift which she intends to maintain indefinitely. I began giving her my photographic work in gratitude for occasional free herbal advice received over the phone. I later became a patient of hers, and have since given her multiple framed photos, as well as one to an interested client. She now insists on personally not receiving any more photos or taking a greater sum of money, even though some of my appointments amount to over $100. She has even performed free in-office analyses, and given me free herbs around the holidays, in return for the photographic gifts I have given her. Definitely network, there are people who want to help. I have given many free massages myself.
You obviously know your way around a physical therapist's office. You could offer to do some work, one or two days a weeks if possible, in return for some treatement. Even if it's just sorting records, greeting clients, doing an intake evaluation of sorts, or manning the phone for a while.
To be wholly honest, I think $80 for a half an hour is totally exorbitant. Two of my instructors were former presidents of the AMTA (American Massage Therapy Association). One, whom I greatly admired and considered to be one of the most knowledgeable and competent people I have ever known, only charged $120 an hour at the height of his professional massage career. And he was once on call for a US president when he was due to be in town.
As to things you might try yourself, aside from any self-massage techniques: You could try heat packs or hot water bottles. You could boil some peeled ginger in water, soak a towel in this, and wrap this around the water bottle or heat pack. You could try a hot bath with sea salts or epsom salts. Tiger Balm, a potent and soothing natural muscle ointment, particularly popular among martial artists, can be found many places, including most pharmacies and Walmart stores.
There are COX-II inhibiting herbs as well, you might might try if necessary and inclined, preferably under the supervision of a qualified health practitioner. These herbs are reputed to exhibit some of the same beneficial effects as over the counter pain medications, and would be used in substitution for such. Examples include Mediterranean Oregano Oil and Turmeric. Oregano Oil is very potent in many regards, and strongly contraindicated in the presence of bowel disorders and certain other conditions, as well as being not generally recommended for long-term use. Turmeric is considered generally safe, and does perhaps have a more well documented history of use, being one of the most prized herbs in Jamu (Indonesian medicine). I have taken both briefly myself, and have spoken with someone with MS who takes the latter regularly, attributing great results to it. Though again, do be careful with possible or considered use of these, as with any medicine. Be particularly mindful of interactions between prescription drugs and herbs, as there are many.
One final thing I could possibly recommend, is an "electro-acupuncture" unit. This is a pseudo-medical device found in many Asian import shops, or found various places on the net, similar in some regards to a TENS unit, and powered by a 9-volt battery. It emits regular patterns of fairly low-level current through two pads, that are moistened slightly to increase conductivity, and then placed over the afflicted area, and on the corresponding side. The resultant shock causes the muscle to fully contract, at which point it must slacken to "reset", slowly coaxing it into a longer resting legnth. I use one of these devices myself, generally reserving it as a last resort of sorts, but it can be something of a lifesaver, achieving appreciable, if often largely temporary results. The only real risks I've thus far found, is that it is very easy to exhaust (overwork) the muscle if not careful. And if too much water is applied to the pads, it can be a bit painful and somewhat irritating to the skin.
I do agree with Cassie that many doctors do way overprescibe pain killers, often ignoring the root causes. I myself never work on anyone with anything stronger than a non-prescription dose of NSAID's in their system, and I prefer they not be on any sensory suppressing medications during this time, whenever possible. Client feedback during massage is very important, particularly during more therapeutically oriented work. Such medicine certainly does have its place, but I do prefer to mix the two as little as possible.

Hi Everyone,
I have a question, I have 2 herniated disk in my lower back from doing a lot of lifting over the years and also was just diagnosed with calcium deposits and arthritis and signs of shrinkage in my upper back. I have an appointment with a neurosurgeon about the new diagnosis knowing that they will have to operate to remove the calcium but am woundering what I'm in for in the long run with the problems I have with my back I just turned 40 yrs old. I don't know if these conditions are related with the herniated disk and I guess I'll have a lot of questions for the Doctor as well. :rolleyes: