A message specifically for eawoodall but I'd love to hear from anyone else too

Please could you tell me about you experiences of the martial art of Kuta?
I have read in other posts that you have practiced it for years, how did you come across it?

Cheers.
CoopcUK

drbill212

i try to give everyone a chance and i am always ready to learn more.i am trying to learn more about kuta and will listen to anyone esp if they trained before Leroy. i would like to meet and/or talk to you - i feel that there was more although he said there was not.

eawoodall

strange, he did not call himself Leroy. i am not sure if he showed me a department of motor vehicles identification card.
maybe he prefered to use a more oriental sounding name or for security reasons he had to use an alias. some experts on askme.com, and i presume if they are still on askmehelpdesk.com are in the military, and cannot reveal a complete real name, because of their security clearance, or activities.

was it early,mid or late 60s you learned from Dok Lee (car of 60s reference)?
I have been told that atleast four people trained as far as Dok Lee would teach (and also that he did not teach the survival training).
I did not train before Dok Lee started training. I merely learned from someone else who trained before pappy joe, and certainly their master learned years before that (i trained under them, some). It is probably just that I happened to beat Dok Lee that particular day, who is to say if on another day he would not have beaten me easily. maybe. I trained (mostly in the 60s) for Hikuta.
from your post i note that Dok Lee felt that if he trained "someone" (a certain black gentleman well known for fighting) that, that "someone", could defeat him (Dok Lee). so Dok Lee felt that anyone fully trained in what he knew could theoretically defeat him (i.e. it would be possible). so me winning on any particular day seem less and less impressive, all the time.

It is always nice to meet like minded persons. and certainly they say similar stones can polish each other (take the rough edges off - help critique each others technique -learn from what others have done/continue to do). So yes should opportunity arise it would be nice to talk/meet, whatever with you.

My purpose is not to spread Hikuta. Dok Lee sold over 600k video/book combos from business sources raving about the great sales, so i think the cat is out of the bag. I just believe that people can be helped to understand.
and there are other products Dok Lee did, and others have sold items, etc.

I suppose my '8 seconds to martial arts', and "two minutes to explain it" can be / have been useful to some. if you consult other related sources you may find more info. chin na (or cam na in cantonese) has atleast two techniques in every major form of kung fu, royal korean bodyguard art (is included as a part of kuk sool won), etc, all include some techniques you may find familiar.

oldcoach

It is strange that Woodall chooses to refer, in detail, only to questions that are "found on the internet" and to continue to be very vague about questions that could expose him as a fraud. Vagueness is an old ploy used by liars. It allows them to adjust their lies to address real qualifying questions.

He continually uses insults and excuses to cover his lack of real answers. He says that he needs no fame, yet he continually boosts of his imagined prowess. When challenged, he simply says that one is stupid or reluctant to believe, because one doesn't have experience.

Send me an email EAWoodall. If you are who you claim, tell me how to meet you. You joke about your adversaries yet it is you who are the joke. Your ploy may work with children, but not with discerning adults.

For DRBill212- Please post a reply to my post to verify whether Woodall gave correct answers so that we all can put this to rest. You don't have to post the answers, just tell us if he answered correctly.

OldCoach

eawoodall

i tried to explain this to you before. how do you know i am not using an alias and am really dr. bill, so no matter what bill says to verify me, you will not accept it. who you gonna get to verify bill, et cetera ad infinitum (it just goes on and on forever - for those of you who do not understand that).

for that matter how do i know you are not bill?

as a coach, that you claim to have been/be you should know people are different, some are stronger, some are weaker. do you admit that? do you even know that? because you feel insulted that i called your bluff. if you were a coach you should have had more than one student on a team you coached, and so you would see differences between them. so do not be surprised that people have differences. please.

i showed your lack of experience as a coach, or lack of paying attention as a coach, if that you are not good at coaching is an insult, then perhaps you can work harder and do better at noticing the differences in your team's members individual strengths, and weaknesses. they are not all the same.

prowess is not something imagined. you mean a gradiose prowess, a unbelievable series of acts that goes beyond the imagining. sounds cool.
sorry just my life is that way. if you know you cannot believe, okay. do not.
see if i care. life is life. truth is truth.

i am sorry if i have made you feel defensive. i am sorry and apologize if i insulted any of you. i am just being me. i am sure you are a great coach, and a fine person. sometimes i feel defensive when people do not show respect.

please do not make bill jump through hoops to make you happy. thank you.

NeedKarma

This thread is funny and sad at the same time.

coopcuk

Just checked my mail after being away for a few weeks...great to see this debate is still going strong... and a new and like minded individual has joined us, Dr Bill... you say you have trained under DOK Lee. Perhaps you could tell us a little about your training?

I am currently trying to train from Jack Savage and Al Abidin's video products...any hints/tips/exercises would be greatly appreciated.

If you and Mr Woodall do meet up, perhaps I could also attend...I would love to participate in a Hikuta discussion with some people who know what they are talking about for a change!

A doubtful Brit

I am a complete newcommer to Hikuta and am very curious to whether it works.

I have trained in Tai Chi for nearly ten years and find it a facinating discipline to train in, but it takes many years to perfect. Much longer than the ten years I have been training.
I accidently came across Hikuta whilst browsing on the net and found it very exciting. The thought of being able to learn a great way of defence in just 3 months sounds great. However, after much searching on the net, and reading everything I possibly can about it, I do doubt it's power.

Can anybody please help me with the queiries I have and then I can decide whether or not to train in Hikuta.

1. In everything I have read, whilst performing the Hikuta fist strike, the other hand is brought to the chest. Why is this? It just makes no sense. I presume it must some how put more power into the strike, but how? I need to know the science. And surley, if you are attakced by a man holding a gun, yur other hand would be better off blocking the armed arm or deflecting it instead of slapping yourself in the chest. Your strike may be powerful, but the gun is still pointing at you. It would not be too difficult for the attacker to squeeze off a couple of shots.

2. In a majority of martial arts, an open palm strike is much stronger than a closed fist (loose or not). Are Hikuta experts trying to tell me that the Hikuta fist produces a more powerful blow than an open palm strike.

3. I have not read anything about blocking where Hikuta is concerned. Are there any blocking tecniques? I just don't see how one could defeat a group attack of say 4 or more people without blocking any attacks. Surley whilst you were striking one or maybe two of the attackers the others would be throwing punces and kicks left, right and centre. I know that Hikuta expresses it's speed but it doesn't make you superman.

Thanks for anyone who can help me.

eawoodall

here is a SHORT explaination quoting from my series of posts on physics and hikuta. two paragraphs of quotes then i get to specific answers.

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physics of hikuta / kuta

when moving in hikuta you must remember to use you momentum.
hitting with only the weight of your hand, will not do as much as hitting with your entire body weight behind your hand. in kendo they jump off the ground at the moment of striking to ensure they have their entire body weight into each hit. i have studied other martial arts as well as hikuta.

(F=ma. e=mc^2=(m*(v^2))/2. p=mv)
note: definition- energy is the the name of units of work in physics.


energy = one half of mass times velocity squared.

if bob has v=1 and mass 2 that he uses when hitting.
bob hits with energy amount 1

if roy has v=1 and mass 4
then roy hits with energy amount 2
twice as much mass in strike, twice the energy.

if mike has v=2 and mass 2
then mike hits with with energy amount 4.
twice as much velocity, four times the energy.

if chuck has v=2 and mass 4
them chuck hits with energy amount 8.
twice as fast and twice as much mass equals eight times energy.

if john has v=3 and mass 2
then john hits with energy 9.
three times as fast equals nine times the energy.

so both mass and velocity (speed in a direction) are of great concern when the amount of energy matters. consider the amount of mass of the hand, to how much mass the entire body has. and consider that a very fast small man can deliver more energy than a medium sized fast man.
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there also exists movement in a circular fashion we call angular velocity, angular velocity is measured in omega = 2*pi*radius. we use 2 pi because the distance around a circle of radius 1 or along the path of a sine wave of frequency 1 (which equals 1 cycle per second for one complete cycle)
is 2* pi. so the angular velocity is also important in how much energy is being directed into the target when striking. in physics the moment arm is the amount needed to cause an object to remain at statis or not moving. a one foot long pole made of metal idealized with a 20 pounds weight at the far end from the fulcrum (the point at which it is being held to exert the amount needed to hold it still in this case, also the pivot point or hinge by definition). idealized so that there is not compression or contraction or expansion(strain or stress). produces a 20 pound feet 'moment arm' that must be countered by 20 foot pounds of torque to remain motionless. if you move the point of 'balance' of the weight of 20 pounds to 1/2 foot from the end , then the 10 pound feet 'moment arm' must be countered by 10 foot pounds of torque.
so that like a ice skater when spinning as you bring your arms in, the same torque produces much more movement, because the 'moment arm' has gone down, and the less the 'moment arm' the greater effect for the same torque.
the current 'moment arm' divided by the previous 'moment arm' produces a multiplication of the effective movement caused by the application of the same old torque. if you both reduce your 'moment arm', and increase your torque, you can see that you are going to produce an multiplicative amount of effect when striking. hikuta lowers your 'moment arm' and trains you to increase your torque, thereby delivering such a high rate of angular velocity, in addition to high velocity, and high acceleration that it produces such a serious effect to only be used in emergencies. furthemore that the seperation of the impulse function of an impact is countered by the application in opposion to the seperation function, allowing critical time for the energy to be delivered to the target during the impact. because the contact is maintained slightly longer much more kinetic energy is transfered to the target, causing much greater damage to the target, as well as less effect on the originator of the strike, since more of the energy leaves the person hitting the target, less recoil occurs to you, and so less damage can occur to the person doing hikuta because the energy of that strike is no longer retained by them. in many systems a wrong strike can cause the person doing the strike to break their own hand/foot/etc, but in hikuta since the energy is allowed more time to enter the target less energy is retained, and felt by the person doing the hikuta strike.
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1. you reduce your "moment arm". Reducing your "moment arm" multiplies effective torque (applied torque times "old moment arm"/"new moment arm").
the ice skater does not add more torque after they start a spin, i.e. they have as much torque in a spin as they are going to have, but when they bring their arms in they reduce their "moment arm" and you see them spinning much faster for the same amount of torque that was causing them to spin slowly. when you reduce your "moment arm" the same application of pound feet gives you a multiplication ("new moment arm"/"old moment arm") of foot pounds of torque. so you hit MUCH harder, i.e. with much more torque. when you properly hit someone with hikuta you transfer ALOT momentum to them, and they often shot or stab themselves, because they are moving away from you at such a high rate of speed that the arms flail/jerk to stay attached to the torso/main body. So since they now have shot (or stabbed) themselves, and the gun (or knife) is not pointing at you anymore, and they still may be shocked by the intense effective transfer of ALOT of momentum to their body you should be safe. If not, again use the proper amount of force or deadly force as needed, and that the law allows, i.e. hit them again.

2. Hikuta has an open palm strike, but it is not JUST an open palm strike. remember the opposition to the seperating (or impulse) force causes you to deliver more of the force/momentum INTO the body of the target. they get more impact, and you have less momentum still remaining inside of you to "feel" the strike (harder for you to hurt yourself or break your own bones if hitting improperly because less effective impulse function gives more time in contact with target to transfer energy of strike). i prefer to start students with the Hikuta open palm because it is less likely that they could do it wrong and hurt themselves, than if they use a different technique, because the worst they can do is to ONLY do a regular palm strike, if they do it very wrong, and it is hard to hurt your palm by striking something.

3. if you move much faster than others you can see that it is easy to block. but if you move much faster than others you do not need to block, because you can hit them instead of blocking. the old king fu saying, "the beginner blocks, the intermediate blocks then attacks, the master no longer needs to block". why wait around to block an attack, attack instead. as you become faster, you have to perceive faster to keep up with your own speed, and so you notice/see faster and develop or react faster. with a martial art that you are so much faster than others (perhaps they do not even do martial arts), yes you could block every punch, but how boring, why not just end the fight before they can do anything, you will less likely to be hurt if they do not hit you at all.

story about use of Hikuta:
i have had occasions where professional boxers have tried to harm/kill me or persons in martial arts hall of fame (or others) have tried to just "learn" if i am a master of martial arts by attacking me, and i prefer to start by seeming like a poser (inept person who makes false claims about greatness). i move slow, and have often allowed them to hit me, just to see how strong someone is, and how well they can give a punch. then i inform them they won, and they should not bother me again since obviously they can beat me up at will (yes i am lying to them, but if they are a genuine honorable person they will not attack you again, since you are no challenge -- they think).
if they come back and attack me again, i do more. i try to gently move only slightly faster than they are (since i have seen them punch i know how fast they move), and only just barely,barely beat them to every punch, just make contact before they can, to throw off their timing/power. and then explain they shouldn't fight me because i am better than they are (just barely - yes still lying to them, but you have to be gentle as people will let you be). if they come back again and continue to make me harm them i usually just let it go, and hit them so fast they do not see it coming. they either tell me when they wake up or sometime. those who have bothered me a fourth time i start to play with, nothing bothers a boxer like going slow enough that they can see your hands, but they cannot move fast enough to stop your hands from punching around, but not into their head. punching near their body, but with no contact so they want to flinch, because they expect contact can really mess with their heads. Sometimes people do not learn so well, sometimes they get the message, and it is worthwhile the sooner they learn. the sooner they learn, the less you have to do to them to keep them from harming/killing you. Professional boxers are not slow, and so do not try this at home. most members of martial arts hall of fame are reasonable people, but when you easily defeat their students they have a tendency to wonder if you are a master (or not), and so they tend to show up, and try to test fight you themselves. but eventually even they can be shown (slowly and slyly) that you are a martial arts master, and that everyone should show proper respect.
i probably shouldn't tell you any more about that for now.

no you would not become superman by learning Hikuta, although some people have claimed .. no i won't go there. really. i will not tell about clark kent.
yes sometimes i lie. stupid i know. oh well.

eawoodall

it takes a long time to squeeze off two shots.

A reasonably average person can hit twice (two seperate distinct attacks) on another reasonably average person and the second person still has not had time to fire one shot.

if you wonder how i know this. i have been known to wear a badge and gun at work (sometimes). i also have a degree that involves criminal justice, as well as my others.

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what does your hand weigh? 5 pounds?
what does your entire body weigh on average 20-50 times as much?
so be sure and use you entire body weight when striking, because you will hit with 20 to 50 times as much momentum.
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There was a small female student of mine (late teens) for three lessons (quick short ten minute sessons), I showed her 'crane streches wings' (move with momentum, change bodily direction, all around defense),and 'crane reaches toward sky' (good for arm flexibility, and breathing deeply) two of the 18 classical kung fu exercises, and also some simple techniques of kuta/hikuta. i told her not to think of it as martial arts, but merely self defense, not to use it unless you must to save your life or the life of someone else. Three criminals types asked her if she knew martial arts, when she said no, they tried to rob her (or worst). When it was over; they had stabbed (or clubbed) themselves with their own weapons (a common reaction to being hit with the hikuta hand), and were all lying on the ground in pain. When the police arrived and took the criminals away, they asked whether she knew a martial art or not, she said no, so they asked "where she learned what she did that stopped those men", she mentioned my name, and then one of the police officers hearing over the police radio that 1. she said she didn't know martial arts, and 2. she learned to fight from me. Well he was laughing so hilariously he had to stop his police car rather than crash! (needless to say the police officer was laughing because he knew me, and knows i know martial arts, and knew, that she knew, some martial arts), the judge (the robbers got felony convictions and years in prison) told her to tell people (in the future, if they ask), that she does know martial arts.


In another incident the same young lady also used her training.
a man whom we both knew by name (who i knew was a agent of a foreign government, with diplomatic immunity), and he after hearing about her defeating those three handily wanted to know what i had taught her (since i never taught him anything or even showed him such techniques in the "fun" sparing we would do, on occassion), so she tried to teach him (she did not know he was a man not to be trusted), but he would not listen to her (many a time i have found 'middle' level martial artists are not receptive to hikuta, the man in question had atleast two black belts in different styles, and had placed seventh in a contest to prove who was 'best' in the state). He became upset (because he wasn't learning hikuta) and tried to beat her up, and she would just beat him silly (time and again).

Finally since he could not beat her (and her with only three 10 minute lessons), he came back to me, and I finally showed him that he never had a chance against me. He was shocked but i explained to him that i never went (near) full speed (less than half speed really) with him before, because he was never much of a threat (i prefer to only go slightly faster than my opponent so that they don't learn of my true speed or abilities. i like to save more surprises for another day). He was funny, and he tried other ways to get me back (i thought the machine gun was a nice touch, totally ineffective but nice), but that is a story for another day. shortly thereafter he left the sphere of influence and seldom returned (atleast when she or i were there).

Well there you have it, another story from eawoodall, i know you don't believe me. same as always. why lie when you can tell the truth and no one believes you.
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what you think about reality does not matter.
what matters is what reality thinks about you.
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let God be true and every man a liar -- romans 3:4

A doubtful Brit

Thanks, your advice in the technique of Hikuta is well noted.
Do you think I would benefit from purchasing Al Abinins' Hikuta training tapes, and how close are his teachings to DOK lee or that of your own teacher.