One more thing; I was worried about the unstable household, and told her that the children needed to be back in school by January 5th. She told me that "You don't really want to open that can of worms" and that I needed to back off or I'd regret it. Since she is a custodial parent, I'm not sure there is much that can be done to prevent this. Also, if I fought and gained custody it would be too easy for her and she'd likely not come back. The harder her life is as a single parent, the more likely she'll wise up and we can attend counseling. That's just my opinion, of course.

Did you give any consideration to my last post? Why have you not gone for counselling, yet you've suggested that she should. You don't speak of your wife in a very positive light at all. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but if you talked to her the way you are talking about her and her family here, I can honestly say I can see why she took the kids and left you!

You focus an awful lot on "status!" Everything that you have mentioned, centers around education, money, and you... you... you! You haven't told us ANYTHING good about your wife! You haven't said if she a genuine person, a caring person, a wonderful mother, a great caretaker... etc. All we have heard is how uneducated she and her family are. Do you think it matters to us how successful your family has been, or all of the degrees that you all have? At the end of the day, none of that matters if you have such contempt for someone who has less of an education than you do. You really do make it sound like your wife and her family are beneath you!

You made references to lumberjacks and people from Arkansas in a very negative way. You better bow down and thank those lumberjacks for making it possible to have the paper to write out your 6 figure pay cheque, and you damn well better thank that "uneducated" Arkansas girl for bearing your children and mothering them!

Yes you do sound "cold and calculating," because that is the way you are being! You are doing this at the expense of your own CHILDREN! For that you should be ashamed! What are you teaching your children? You are teaching them that if you are angry with their mother, that they have to pay for it! 40% of your salary is the least you can do for them, because the morals you are teaching their young impressionable minds will linger.

I believe you need to take the focus off your wife leaving you, and focus on what you need to do to make yourself a better person. That is likely the only way she will come back. If she doesn't, well then deal with what is in front of you like a man. Stop villifying your wife and talking down upon her. She is the mother of your children. You picked her!

I'm sure you aren't going to like my words, and that is fine with me, but if you really want some help, you need to take a good look in the mirror first.

EDIT: This was written before I saw that you had quoted me and answered.

I agree with most of the rest of what you said though!

If the kids aren't in school when they should be, and she's the custodial parent, then report her for truancy.

In the US, kids have to be in school up to a certain age (which varies by state). This is LAW.

Honestly, though--it doesn't sound like you're making any effort at all to make your marriage work.

Good luck with your degree--hope it keeps you warm at night.

GreatBig, After reading all your posts, I'm with Starbuck. And more, actually. You come across in your posts as profoundly selfish and arrogant.

I don't have the impression that you have been supportive of your wife or given her the chance to go through school. You lord it over her with your own education, which you apparently got while married to her, as she slaved away at low-end jobs, yet you appear not to have made room for Her to get any education.

By your own account, when you were together, you barely saw each other, and she hardly saw her children. What kind of life is that? What "plan" of yours justifies decisions like that? There's more to life than money. You imply there's another man, but present no evidence. You this her and constantly this her family. We understand that you feel angry, but this is more than anger. It's total lack of respect. And you talk about "babysitting" your own kids. It is physically impossible for a parent to be a babysitter. You are a parent, not a babysitter.

Why is she working 9-hour shifts at Penny's instead of taking classes toward a degree like you? In 12 years, there was never time for her to go back to school? In all that time, it's no surprise that she entertained a lot of different ideas of what she would do if she ever got the chance. In 12 years you got a BA and an MA and a bigger income. In 12 years, what has she got? Zip. And now you want to punish her for not sticking it out for even longer? I'm betting she spent all that free time before she had to go to work at 3 pm shopping for groceries and doing your laundry. I'm betting she's tired of taking care of your needs and being told what a zero she is.

And now you are quitting your job and going for MORE education? It sounds to me like you are competing with your siblings instead of focusing on your family. Forget the PhD. For now. Do it after your kids have your education or better. Doing it now is greedy and selfish, no matter how you rationalize it. (What good is your imagined bigger income and fanciful life in California going to do your kids after they are already grown up?) I think you are going back to school so you won't have to pay child support.

Keep your job and support your wife so she can go to school, finally, and care for her kids (if you won't). If you start cherishing her and treating her with reverence and respect, she MIGHT come back. But even if she doesn't, you should still put her through college.

You owe it to her.

I appreciate your honesty, truly. I have been for counseling and was meeting with a psychologist for almost a year right before we moved here in October in 2007 (I was depressed and worried that I wouldn't be able to support my family after graduation... I found my current job and moved but the psychologist felt I had made some real progress and it was fine to end the sessions.). I've lived in Arkansas for years now, and though there are some positive aspects I can also understand why we're so far behind and one of the least progressive places in the U.S. (Mike Huckabee once referred to Arkansas as being like a third-world country, and I like the Huckster!). I guess it takes living here to understand the ironies.

I only wish I had a six-figure paycheck. That's part of the reason I'm resentful of the power structure here as well... no one wants to pay their employees... I'm in the bottom 10% for my field and education level and that is not likely to change in a state that had their school funding formula declared "unconstitutional & inadequate."

I did state why I was attracted to her initially. She was young, vibrant, beautiful, driving, and seemed to want something out of life. She was compassionate and loving, but over the past few years she's grown hateful and mean. I am sorry for being cold and calculating but I have to eat and I'd like to have good enough credit to buy a home eventually; she's ruined our finances. In fact, I can't even afford to keep our rental home and now have to move into a single bedroom apartment because she quit her job and left me with every bill we have (70K in total debt, and my income has been cut in half now). It ticks me off that I've worked so hard to provide for all of us and she threw it away due to emotional issues that I believe could have been worked out; she wouldn't go to counseling with me or anything, and I was quite willing! Six years of college and working full-time, and all I asked her was for a few months to get our finances in order. I begged her to stay at her job so that at least she could leave with some kind of order. As of now, our credit is going to be ruined because neither of us can pay the bills like we had been. My life is being ruined and I've worked extremely long and tedious to improve it. So yes, I'm extremely angry and hurt and feel there is nothing I can do. Of course I want to save my marriage, but how can I do that when she'll have nothing to do with me?

The 70K in loans obviously wasn't for a house, so is it your college loans?

What do you suggest I do to try and make it work? She left and rarely talks to me. When she does it's often not about anything other than business... every once in a while she talks about general things or emails little clues about what was going on in her head. I'm open to suggestions, people. That's why I'm here...

56K in student loans. 15K in credit cards from before I started my job and we were both working full-time (my salary just didn't pay enough by itself; it took the two of us to make a living). I also have 9K on my vehicle but that's only in my name and I'm paying for it myself. Still the 15K is $450 a month, rent was $800 a month, car is $236, and student loans are $600; try paying that on $1,600 take-home pay... it doesn't work. That's part of why I'm so furious about this. She's ruined us financially by leaving and quit her job... it sounds really irresponsible to me. At least stick around for a few months and work but she just had to leave...

I just got whiplash, you just did a 180 on us.

Now you've been to counselling?

I find this a bit difficult to stomach. You're life is ruined? What about hers? What about the kids.

You honestly think that you've done nothing, but honey, it takes two to make a marriage work, and it takes two to destroy it. I don't believe that you're as innocent in all this as you are trying to lead us to believe.

She doesn't measure up to your expectations, we got that in just the few posts you've placed here, I'm sure she knows it too. I wouldn't be able to live with a man that thinks I'm not worthy of him because of my family and education.

How can you get her back? You can't, she either decides to give your marriage another shot, or she doesn't. It's out of your hands.

No, there was no way to put her through college with three children. It was physically impossible. Also, she wouldn't commit to any particular field of study so until she knew what she really wanted to do I didn't see any point in switching out and letting her go instead. No, she didn't slave away at a job while I was in school. I slaved away at a job (sometimes two) while I was in school. She stayed at home with the children. While both of us worked, I did the grocery shopping, and I took care of 90% of the domestic duties (to include laundry). She would hang out around the house on the phone talking to her friends for hours on end before going to work. Also, on her days off she'd go hang out with her friends while I had to stay at home and take care of the children; I never had a moment to myself. I was working more hours AND taking care of business at home, so please don't think she was a "desperate housewife." I'd have to use my lunch break to take care of any business (pay rent, pay bills, ect) because she was being too lazy and complained if I asked her to do much of anything, even though she didn't go into work until 3 p.m. It was OUR plan, not just mine. I told her I would support whatever field of study she chose. We both wanted to buy the house we (I) currently rent, and needed the two incomes to qualify for the mortgage. I figured we'd work for a year or so, pay down or off our debts, and then she could go (practically for free since I work there). It's only going to take another 3-4 years to finish my Ph.D. in psychology. If I wait until my children have a master's degree I'll be near retirement, so I really think that's unfair and not even very practical. In four years my children will be 12 and 14, and so yes my increased income WILL benefit them. If I wait until they have a master's, I'll wait 16 years at the minimum and be in my 50's. How can that be justified as opposed to finishing it up in a couple years? I have to respectfully disagree.

I do also agree that there is more to life than money, but when a state university system pays its professonals so little that their health insurance premiums cost 25% of the salary, and the salary is so low your family still qualifies for food stamps, it's difficult to justify your statement. Yes, there are more important things, but when you're paycheck is so small it doesn't cover basic living expenses there are few things as miserable as that.

Have the two of you gone to a FINANCIAL counselor?

It sounds like there are resentments on both sides, stemming for the lack of money and the WAY specific goals were being worked toward.

I know you say it was "OUR" plan---but I also know that sometimes I just get frustrated with my husband enough to let him call HIS plan "OUR" plan--even though I completely disagree with it, he's not hearing my disagreements as valid.

ASK her if she wants to save the marriage. If she does, then be willing to go further into debt to do so, because there's no way you're going to save it without the help of both a financial counselor and a marriage counselor.

PS--My sister put herself through college with FIVE kids. It CAN be done. You just don't get to work the jobs you WANT to work until it is done.

Did you ever tell her that you didn't like your lot in life? Did you ever say that you're doing everything and she's not pitching in? Did you two communicate, or did you hint at it, or just call her lazy, unmotivated etc. without telling her that you were frustrated.

Passive aggressive doesn't work, it usually just pushes people away. Perhaps you were being a bit too passive aggressive. Just a suggestion.

Than do it. Go to counselling - for yourself, not for her, and maybe take on that 2nd job - for yourself, not for her.

Nothing will be achieved through anger & bitterness. Help yourself & then maybe you can help her. It sounds like she has issues.

I'm still not completely convinced, although glad to know you were doing housework. Good for you.

But you got through college with three children. Why should it be impossible for another person to do it? And as for not knowing what she wanted to major in before she went, lots of college students don't know when they first start. You figure it out as you go along. Some people know, but not everyone. I've know people who switched interests several times and ended up doing well.

Thanks for everyone's feedback. I do like how this board is being honest and forthright, as persons (such as myself) in these situations can easily become mired in our own emotions/situations. Objectivity is the name... and I do appreciate it.

I've asked her about saving our marriage. She said she doesn't care enough anymore to try so I guess we'll just have to see. Like with any problem, admitting there is one and trying to be open-minded enough to see it (and see things from other perspectives) is the first step to solving any problem. I'm deeply hurt and angry. My wife was my best friend until recently; sorry if I sound arrogant but I haven't felt very respected either.

Look, it might sound to some like I'm merely trying to evade child support, but that is simply not true. The problem is that my income will be so low I will not be able to live on it; I'll be living in a cardboard box or travel trailer (are you willing to suffer on $900 a month after deductions? That's what I'd be left with! No one in their right mind would live like that... not in the U.S. and especially if their wife is carrying on with someone else eventually).

Child support is not an option, you're responsible to support the kids you helped bring into the world, even if it means living in a cardboard box. Sorry, reality check.

You asked if you should suffer? Well, should your kids? They didn't choose this, it's not their fault.

I'm saying it would have been impossible for BOTH of us to go at the same time. If someone already knows what they want to do AND has a full academic scholarship to go, it makes more sense for that person to attend than the other who doesn't know what they want to do and has grades that are too low to qualify for financial aid (1.67 gpa when she last went).

I deal with at-risk students as a profession, and I can tell you that less than 10% of all single mothers who attend college ever complete. If you work in higher education you also know that some students have the drive to succeed while others simply don't. One has to have the tenacity and temerity to deal with everything life throws at them AND complete school. Single parents have it tough. In my opinion, after 13 years of experience with her, my wife doesn't have the drive to do this. For our children's sake (and her own), of course I hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't be doing this for a living if I didn't have the ability to "read" people and determine which students are likely to succeed and which ones aren't. Of course, I want all of them to succeed.

No it's not their fault. Their mother made a hasty decision (quit her own job! She doesn't even have one now... how responsible is that?), and now I'm stuck taking up the slack to a woman who doesn't want to be around or even work on our relationship? Of course I'll support my children, but what I'm saying is the program I'm applying for pays a stipend that is just as much as my take-home pay. If I'm going to be poor and pay support, I might as well get a Ph.D. and yes my kids will benefit when I'm done in a few short years. They'll still be young enough to enjoy it and benefit.

Plus, if you are back in school, you can defer paying off the college loans. Yes?