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    jccww's Avatar
    jccww Posts: 9, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jul 18, 2011, 05:50 PM
    Living with estranged wife
    After 25 years of marriage and with 3 kids living with us, my wife asked for a separation and moved out. She said I have not supported her emotionally and she feels obsolete and unloved. I love her dearly and was aware that she felt this way. 3 months later she moved back in but said she will move out again if she feels uncomfortable. She has laid down conditions that there be no physical contact, separate sleeping arrangement and no pressuring from me to resolve or even discuss the estranged situation. She also said she be allowed to do as she please without consideration for my feelings. It's been 1 month now and she would not talk to me and she spent most of her time in the house locked up in the bedroom. She does the house chores which she said she hates. Recently she has said to a mutual friend that she is miserable and scared. I do not want to end the marriage. I just want to help her and know how to improve the situation. She has said no to any counselling.
    jccww's Avatar
    jccww Posts: 9, Reputation: 1
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    #2

    Jul 18, 2011, 05:52 PM
    Sorry, I should have said I was unaware that she felt this way.
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,591, Reputation: 2941
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    #3

    Jul 18, 2011, 08:05 PM
    Puzzling indeed, but of course we aren't there, and she isn't here.
    I would start (cautiously) with the mutual friend, who might be able to mediate. A formal meeting of short duration at first, with neither you nor your wife speaking directly to each other.
    My main concern is the word 'scared.' Do you have any clue what she is scared of? You, or just the idea of life on her own after 25 years?
    This could be ANYTHING from hormonal changes of menopause to last straw feelings that you are an inconsiderate jerk who litters the couch with chips and smelly feet and never appreciates anything. I say this because you say she 'does the house chores which she says she hates.' Many a wife realizes after 25 years that her beauty has faded and she has nothing to look forward to but being housemaid to a man who can still go out and attract young women, and grown children who treat her the same way.
    And how old are these children anyway? They must be adults by now, no? They may be part of the problem. Are they being waited on hand and foot?

    Unless I'm way off track, I would gather the kids, scour the really tough stuff like baseboards and oven and top shelves and shower tiles, cook a fantastic dinner, clean up afterward (!), and put a vase of beautiful flowers on the table. I would put an invitation on her door, inviting her to the dinner, and if she doesn't go, she doesn't go.
    jccww's Avatar
    jccww Posts: 9, Reputation: 1
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    #4

    Jul 18, 2011, 09:52 PM
    Thx joypulv. You are perceptive. She may be scared of the idea of life on her own after 25 years or that she's making the wrong decision re: separation. And yes, she has mentioned her fear of growing old & ugly, even though I've reassure her she's not. FYI I'm a good husband, doing my share than most guys with cleaning, cooking, child rearing. My kids are 17, 19 and 21. Typical kids, they don't do much of house chores unless coerce to. At their ages, they have individual lives and my estranged wife felt that she is no longer needed. She's repeatedly mentioned she's obsolete. She's 58 so menopause can be ruled out. She's not open to mediation or counselling. Since the separation I've made special efforts to be more supportive, attentive & caring. If I have not been supportive before I did not do it intentionally. I'm saying I'm a great guy and this is all her fault. I have not communicative enough in the past & I do have a temper but I'm working on this with counselling on my own.
    jccww's Avatar
    jccww Posts: 9, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Jul 18, 2011, 09:54 PM
    Comment on jccww's post
    Sorry I should have said "Ï'm not saying I'm a great guy and this is all her fault
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #6

    Jul 18, 2011, 10:24 PM
    Sometimes a husband/wife is the last to know when other things are going on too. No offense, but is it possible that she was having an affair? Do you know where she was for the three months she was gone, and when she came home, it seems very strange to me that she'd just clam up and offer no explanation, or show any desire to work on her marriage.

    Not to mention there are three kids in the house. She has an obligation to her family; abandoning everybody should have been a last resort- after counselling, communicating, and giving you a chance. And she's told you that she should be allowed to do as she pleases.

    So, she is essentially still in some sort of self imposed exile. Not communicating, unwilling to talk, refusing counselling. She may be feeling depressed, but that too is no excuse to ignore her family, stick her nose up at 25 years of marriage, and not be mature enough to make a decision to get help. She may not want marriage counselling, but like you, she could go to counselling on her own. She could also have a complete physical to rule out anything medically that may be contributing to this.

    I don't know how long things can go on the way they are. If the marriage is over, I hope you are at least given the respect of a straight answer as to why.

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    jccww Posts: 9, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Jul 18, 2011, 10:41 PM
    Hi Jake

    Yes, I do know where she was the 3 months of separation. She was living with the mutual friend. And during these 3 months she would return to the home to do the housechores including cooking dinner and then leave before I return from work. Go figure. Do I ever think she was having an affair? Damn, yes it has cross my mind. I even ask her this and she just said, "Don't even go there". This mutual friend who's her confidante has also said there's no 3rd party. That is why all this is so puzzling to me. No answers. She's in a denial phase. Not willing to go for medical exam or counselling or even mediation with this mutual friend. I'm in a catch 22 situation. I want answers but pressuring her for answers will drive her out of the house. The only advice I'm getting is to be patient, be nice to her, carry on with my normal life and wait. Just wait.
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #8

    Jul 18, 2011, 11:47 PM
    Four months and counting is adding up. I can understand your frustration.

    Is the mutual friend female?

    I hope that patience is all that it will take to turn this around, but I have my doubts. At some point she has to decide if she's in, or she's out.

    When you decide that her decisions have run your life for long enough, something you might want to try is a little negotiating without actually talking to each other. Try to open up communication in another way. If you both have your own computers, send her an email. You might want to consider asking her a few questions, like what her plans are, and whether you should see a lawyer. Let her know that you will not wait forever for her to start working on the marriage and problems. I think that is reasonable considering if the tables were turned, she would also want answers, and not wait forever for them.

    And they won't come from this mutual friend. I don't think the friend was doing her any favours by giving her a place to stay for three months, while you worried your behind off wondering what was wrong.

    You may also want to say to her in a gentle way, that should she leave again, you will seek a legal separation.

    In a way it is very sad that something serious is going on with her, and for some reason she keeps it bottled up. If there is mental illness involved here, or something physically wrong with her- likely both a physical and therapy of some sort, would help her a lot. But what can you do, if she refuses all offers of help.

    I hope that there will come a time, soon, where you can be free to talk to her, even if only to tell her that she has to make some effort for the marriage to continue.

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    jccww Posts: 9, Reputation: 1
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    #9

    Jul 19, 2011, 12:57 AM
    Thanks Jake

    The mutual friend is female. We know her for over 30 years. And I'm thankful for her supporting my wife. She has made it clear to my wife that she is only helping her with reconciliation and not to split up. During the 3 months she kept me informed on what's going on with my wife. The alternative was my wife staying with other friends who may see divorce as a solution.

    Emails, texting, discussions on this estranged relationship will be perceived by her as pressuring. I'm not risking this & having her move out. She will have to initiate things. In the meantime, I'm trying to live a normal life with my kids and maybe she will notice what she's missing. I hope my kindness, understanding & patience will win her back. I know forcing the issue will not because I've tried during the beginning of the separation. I thank you all for your suggestion, even the hard ones. Maybe someone has experience in how to get a spouse who is in denial to want to accept counselling or mediation.
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #10

    Jul 19, 2011, 05:17 AM
    You having some expectation as to communicating- however that may be seen by her- is not unreasonable, considering the circumsatnces. That she would perceive even talking as being pressured, is a bit much, but it is an effective tool to keep herself where she wants to be, and to keep you where she wants you to be as well.

    I understand why you would see not giving into her way or the highway demands, may mean accepting the consequence of her moving out again.

    But, while you may have that fear of her leaving, is it greater or less than the fear of knowing something is seriously wrong and neither of you are dealing with it?

    A partner in denial, usually has some clue as to what they are in denial about, as does their partner. I don't see from what you have said about your behaviour that she knows what's going on with herself, let alone you being able to know what the denial is caused by.

    As an Addiction Counsellor I see people in denial all the time, and not ready to accept treatment. They are there because they are told if they don't go, their marriage is over. Not even a therapist can help a person in denial of having a problem.

    But, she isn't even out of the starting gate. She won't even consider talking- to you. And you are not yet ready to assert yourself effectively to end this position you have both chosen to take. It is hard to take the necessary steps and move ahead to find resolve, I understand that. The risk is she will leave again. She may not. Or she may realize you are serious and she might being to start talking because, if she'd wanted to stay gone, she could have at any point during the three months she was gone, and the one month home again.

    I know you said you were seeing a counsellor, and perhaps she knows more about the situation, and how best to help you deal with this.

    But, I do agree with you that you cannot change her, her behaviour, or anything else about her that she chooses to do. You can only change your own direction. Perhaps it is just not time yet.
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,301, Reputation: 7692
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    #11

    Jul 19, 2011, 10:31 AM

    So she set down her rules to come back, what rules did you tell her had to take place ?

    If you want counseling, tell her that is a condition of her staying.

    Sorry but sometimes you have to push a issue, the result is not always what you want, but stale mate is not always it either.
    jccww's Avatar
    jccww Posts: 9, Reputation: 1
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    #12

    Jul 19, 2011, 07:35 PM
    Jake
    Thanks for you insight and advice. Find them most helpful. Yes, stalemate is not the answer. Guess I'm also in a denial phase. Having her in the house, even noncommunicative, means there's hope. If she moves out, there may be none. Except for 4 close friends & her sister, this separation is not known in our circle of friends or relatives. Because she doesn't want to. I'll wait for her "to get out of the gate" as long as I can. I posted this in the hope that someone in a similar position can let me know how it ended for them.

    Do I know why she's in denial? I can only guess. She has said that she's happier out of the relationship with me than in it. Why go back in. Yes, I can already hear your thoughts that maybe it's better to end the marriage and just move on. It seems irreconcilable. But she has also confided to the mutual friend that she just need time to sort things out and she does not want a divorce. This is why I'm still holding on to hope.


    It may be she's behaving like because she has nowhere to go and she just waiting for something around the corner to happen to her, maybe a new relationship. She's also taking a training course to hopefully get to a job (she has not been working since we married) and gain financial independence.

    The mutual friend's view (after months of listening to her) is that my wife has been hurt by years of emotional neglect on my part that she's afraid of recomitting to our relationship. Also she's have low self esteem and confidence and she really don't know what to do. So denial is the best defence.
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #13

    Jul 19, 2011, 08:46 PM
    So much of that makes sense. When your life has been dedicated full-time to raising a family and taking care of a home, it is a difficult to face the enevitable, and that being, your job, is essentially done. Now what.

    I'm glad she has at least put some thought into her own future by taking a training course. To go from a full time mother/home maker out into the workforce, is not an easy transition.

    It's so hard to guess what will happen. Maybe when she finds her footing she'll gain more confidence and be a happier person, and the marriage will benefit from that. Maybe she is a little resentful right now, that she has given so much, and feels like she's missed out on a lot.

    But, she also has the ability to speak up, and if she suffered 'years' of emotional neglect, surely she could have addressed the problems over the years? And, I think the friend she confides in who told you this, is not doing you any favours. You don't need to carry blame for everything that is wrong in your wife's life.

    It is too bad that your wife couldn't have gone to a counsellor instead of a mutual friend, and who knows that if she had done that, maybe things would be getting on track.

    I really hope this works out for you. I get the impression that you will do your best to pick up cues, and hopefully at least get talking again. The outcome at this point is anybody's guess. But for your own mental health, let's hope for something getting turned around, and soon.
    jccww's Avatar
    jccww Posts: 9, Reputation: 1
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    #14

    Jul 20, 2011, 12:32 AM
    Jake

    Thanks again. Many of the things you've said have crossed my mind. I was hoping for a magic bullet but sadly there's none. But thanks anyway & to all the others who's posted answers. It's comforting to know that there are strangers who are willing to help with empathy and sound advice. The rest is up to her and to God.
    jccww's Avatar
    jccww Posts: 9, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    Jul 20, 2011, 12:36 AM
    Comment on Fr_Chuck's post
    Chuck

    She hold all the cards. I did not set any condition. You are looking at one scared dude who's afraid of losing the woman he loves. Stalemate is better than checkmate.

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