During 18 years of marriage my wife would periodically fly into a rage, and without warning launch a verbal attack on me so sudden and viscious it would leave me utterly devestated. It felt like being kicked in the stomach. The "reason" was always something relatively trivial, just as likely to be something I hadn't done as something I did. This happend on average maybe once or twice a year. It would take me a matter of days to work through the emotional trauma and regain some kind of composure. Sometimes afterward she would cry and say how sorry she was. In between these episides, she was loving, kind and generous. After every episode I managed to convince myself that these fits of rage were anomalies that didn't reflect her true feelings. About four years ago it started to happen more frequently, until finally it was happening once or twice a month. I told her I couldn't stand it any more and asked her to go with me for counselling. She declined, but did get a prescription for an antidepressant which seemed to help for awhile. Then it happened again, and something inside me just sort of gave up. I admitted to myself that this rage was an integral part of her personality, and would likely remain so for the rest of her life. About this time I also started to experience intermittent erectile dysfunction. When I suggested that maybe I should see a doctor about it, she said "Don't bother, I haven't been interested in years". That was two and a half years ago and we haven't had sex since. I'm mostly beyond anger and blame now, and I feel like I have forgiven her, but emotionally I still don't trust her. Is it possible to forgive, but still not trust, or does the lack of trust mean I haven't really forgiven her? It's bad enough having to give up sex, but the lack of intimacy is what's hardest to bear. We get along OK on a practical level, but the juice has gone out of our relationship. The curious thing is that since we stopped being intimate, she hasn't had a single fit of rage. I don't know how to interpret this, and I really don't know how to improve the situation. Any ideas?

aqua@home

Hi, first let me say that this is very sad.

To get to your question...I think it is definitely possible to forgive without trusting. We can forgive, but we can't always forget, nor should we. You have forgiven her and that has probably healed you and helped you. I wouldn't trust her with my feelings at all. She is unwilling to go to counselling or do anything to help your situation. It is one thing to have an amicable relationship, but it is completely different to be in a marriage without intimacy. I think it is human nature to want to be close with your spouse, sex is important too. I can relate to being verbally beaten and I know how hard it is to recover from that.

As far as I can see, maybe she has a personal problem with intimacy. You stated that things haven't been as heated now that the intimacy has stopped. Maybe she has a past experience that is too painful for her to share? This is a possibility and maybe that is why she is declining any counselling. Maybe she is not ready to deal with something that is bothering her?

Just a thought, I hope I'm not too far base. I wish you and your wife all the best.

valinors_sorrow

I think Aqua's post said some really caring and important things. I also offer my condolences for your situation. I came from a really dysfunctional family and so I can tell you its possible to both love and forgive someone who is profoundly untrustworthy. It just means you don't let your guard down and you don't get to experience many things you would if they were not sick. It also, for me, meant I had to periodically grieve a what-might-have-been loss. It was necessary in order to remain in any contact at all with them.

As I grew up, I left my family and the one who was untrustworthy (due to mental illness) has now died. But I can say looking back that I have been very careful who I select to spend my time with. I needed to be with people who are available to me, emotionally especially.

If you plan on staying in the marriage, you might need to see a professional yourself. Who knows, maybe if she sees you go to the counselor and survive, she may change her mind. I wouldn't pressure her though. At the very least, I can see you needing more support from others in order to sustain the loss your arrangement is creating, otherwise you could very likely set yourself up as a target for an affair.

The only other path I can think of is if she has a doctor, minister, someone respected she is close to that you might turn to for some help too. I really would like to see her go with you to the professional but it may need to be an idea from someone else's mouth, you know what I mean?


I hope you find us helpful. Thanks for posting.

Stysmomof3

Intimacy is so important in marriage even if it is purely emotional, honest and yet still vulnerable. I am sorry for your situation but, if you are only comfortable with no passion and satisfaction in your marriage that would cause me to wonder about the future?

Sara

ordinaryguy

Thank you all for your responses. It does help to have someone else's perspective on the situation. I think she probably does have secrets that she's unwilling to share. If she's upset and I ask what's wrong, her standard response is "I don't want to talk about it". And she's not kidding. Continuing to probe only makes her angry, so I quit that strategy a long time ago. At some point I may try again to get her to go with me for counselling, and if she won't, go by myself. I know I can't find a solution that doesn't involve her, but just talking through it with someone might ease the pain, and that's worth something.

valinors_sorrow

Well apparently you found how to do it since you "commented on this post" or "rated Aqua's answer" LOL It's all the same thing -- you can agree and give out a greenie (which you did to Aqua) or you can disagree and give out a reddie. They accumulate and show up by your user name. Do you see how I have four greenies to the far right here? I recently acquired one when I went over the 300 points mark. Greenies add points, reddies subtract. You can see the total points and the details of the most recent ratings/comments at the bottom of any person's profile. Just click on a member name and then "view public profile" and scroll down.

s_cianci

Frankly, I'd have been out the door a long time ago (or, better yet, thrown her a_s out the door and changed the locks.) Verbal/emotional abuse is just as bad as, and sometimes worse than physical abuse. No one has the right to dish it out and no one is ever obliged to tolerate this. Unfortunately I think some of your other respondents are just enabling her behavior by rationalizing.

talaniman

You've been married 18 years so how old are you. We humans do go thru a big change as the hormones change that signal mid life. Just a thought.

J_9

I am wondering if she may have bi-polar disorder.

Yes there are hormonal considerations too, but this


As well as this


Makes me think of bi-polar disorder.

Maybe a trip to her doctor is in order.

ordinaryguy

I'm 60, she's 55, and we've been married for 20 years. Hormones may have had something to do with the increase in frequency beginning 3 or 4 years ago, but I don't think that can explain a pattern that has been in place for so many years. We were friends and co-workers for 10 years before we got married, but it only started after. That, and the fact that it stopped after we stopped being intimate makes me lean toward the secret fear of intimacy theory. Believe me, I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out why, but what I finally came to is that for me, that isn't really the question. That's her question, if and when she ever decides to seek an answer. The question for me is how do I respond, and for the last 2+ years, the answer has been to put enough emotional distance between us to protect myself. It's not a perfect solution, and it probably won't work indefinitely, but it has worked, in the sense that the verbal beatings have stopped. For now, that's enough. For the future, I don't know. I'm taking it one day at a time.