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I guess I always knew we have more in common than most people realise.
Sorry if my OP was a bit vague on the question,but then I wasnt sure where to begin as there is very little I know about Judaism other than the few basics that I have read here and there during my school years and later.
I have a question regarding the afterlife and atonement of sins as per your books.(Thanks Ruby for reminding me). How are sins atoned for and do you believe in an afterlife or are we to stay on in this world always?
Thanks again.
Elliot, I think you know by now that my knowledge is very limited. Would you mind answering these questions for Firmbeliever? Thank you, E.
I have a question regarding the afterlife and atonement of sins as per your books.(Thanks Ruby for reminding me).
How are sins atoned for and do you believe in an afterlife or are we to stay on in this world always?
Thanks again.
Wow, talk about huge questions. These are going to take some time for me to get though. They require a bit of historical background and an explanation of some Jewish laws.
According to Jewish law, there are 3 kinds of sins. These are:
Mayzid - a sin done on purpose.
Shogeg - a sin done by accident, but which could have been avoided with more care.
Oness - a sin that was done completely because of something beyond our control.
For example, if I turn on a light on the Sabbath (an act that is prohibbited) simply because I wanted to, and didn't care that I was violating the law, that is a Mayzid. If I accidentally turned on the light either because I forgot is was the Sabbath or because I wasn't paying attention and turned it on out of habbit, that is a Shogeg. If I turned on the light because someone was sick, and I needed light in order to help save their life, that is an Oness.
In ancient times, during the time of the Great Temple, we had a sacrificial system by which we sacrificed animals. Some of these were for daily worship, some were for holiday worship, some were for for thanks for a special event, etc. And some were for asking forgiveness and repentance. These atonement sacrifices were ONLY EFFECTIVE for Shogeg sins. That is important to note, as it becomes an important factor later in this explanation. So keep it in mind.
The other two forms of sins did not require sacrifices. An Oness was not our fault, and so G-d doesn't hold it against us, and no sacrifice is needed.
A Mayzid, which was a sin done on purpose, was considered too awful for a sarifice to be effective, and so OTHER actions had to be taken instead. These included prayer, acknowledgement for the sin, requesting forgiveness directly from G-d and a resolution to never do it again. So "atonement" is an ongoing, life-long effort, not a one-shot deal.
Since the destruction of the Second Great Temple in 70 AD, we have not had a sacrificial system in place (according to Jewish Law, sacrifices can only be performed on the alter of the Great Temple). In place of the daily, holiday and special sacrifices, the Rabbis established a system of prayers... each prayer period representing a sacrifice that would have been performed in the Great Temple. Similarly, the Rabbis instituted a system of prayers to represent the sacrifices for thanks and for forgiveness as well.
But remember from above that sacrifices only mattered for Shogeg sins. So this edict only effects a very specific group of sins. And what we have done is to institute the same prayer system that we use for Mayzid sins. The reasoning is that if prayer and repentance are enough to atone for a Mayzid, a deliberate act of defiance, then surely it is good enough to attone for an accidental sin, which is much less serious an offense in the eyes of G-d.
So in the end analysis, the way we attone for our sins is through prayer and action... prayer for our sins, and the action of never doing that sin again.
Please note that the above explanation only applies to sins against G-d. For sins against our fellow man, not even sacrifice and prayer will bring attonement. The only way to atone for a sin against our fellow man is to ask his forgiveness. Often, this is harder to do than to ask G-d for forgiveness. G-d is infinitely merciful and he WANTS to forgive us. But our fellow man holds grudges and his mercy has limitations, and obtaining his forgiveness can be very difficult. That is why there are many who say that a sin against your fellow man is much worse than a sin against G-d... G-d forgives, man might not.
So that is a short, but complicated, primer on atonement of sins according to the Jewish religion.
As for views of the afterlife, there are two basic views in Judaism, but they basically amount to the same thing. Upon our death, our souls come before G-d and are judged. One angel, called Soton, acts as the prosecutor at the trial, while another angel, Micha-el, acts as the defense attorney. The actions of our lives are judged by G-d. If we are judged to be "good", we enter Gan-Eden (Garden of Eden/heaven), there to bask in the joy and glory of G-d. (Don't ask me what that means, I have no idea.) If we are judged to be "evil", we spend a time in Gehinom (hell), where we suffer for a time until our sins have been purged. Once that is done, we are then able to enter heaven, there to bask... yada, yada.
To make things more complicated, there are those who say that heaven and hell are the same thing. If we are found to be "good", we are able to enjoy being in front of G-d. But if we are found to be "evil", we are ashamed of our sins, and that shame makes us suffer. We are shameful of being before G-d in a state of sin, and that shame is infinitely painful. But after a time, the shame fades (how long it takes is proportional to the level of sin), and then we are able to enjoy being before G-d. Thus, according to this belief, the punishment we recieve is simply the consequences of our actions, the shame we feel at having committed the sins in the first place.
Again, these are very simplified explanations of these concepts, and huge volumes have been written about them. Naturally, since the only people who could possibly tell us what happens after death are people who have died, there is no way to really know what "reward" and "punishment" are and what forms they take. But Judaism doesn't waste too much time with it. We know our responsibility here on Earth, and the mechanics of whatever happens in the next life is not germain to that responsibility. It is enough to simply know that if we do what G-d wants, we will be rewarded, and if not, we will be punished. The details aren't that important to Jewish philosophy.
You would be surprised to know that I understand your explanation as it is somewhat similar to my beliefs(which is no surprise to me).
I have another question......
How about the spiritual realm?Do you believe in the existence of Satan and its evil forces among men and spirit? Humans seeing ghosts?
And souls?Do you believe in the return of souls into this world after death like some believe to appear to loved ones or wronged souls being stuck in limbo sort of thing?
Thanks again.
EDIT:...I was talking about your last answer regarding sins.
We both have purer monotheistic Faiths.
We both are fervent in our Faiths.
We both do not believe G-d is a man.
We both do not believe G-d could actually die.
We both share in the Decalogue (commandments).
We both have dietary religious laws, rituals, and traditions.
We both share some of the Biblical patriarchs.
We both love our parents.
We both love our children.
We both wait upon a Messiah that fulfills his duty by bringing about a messianic age.
We both, generally speaking, want to live in a world of peace.
I'm not sure what to make of the quiz. I'm a lot less observant than Orthodox Jewish adherents. In fact, I'm not even Orthodox. Maybe the quiz doesn't distinguish ideology from practice.
Anyway, here are my results:
Orthodox Judaism (100%)
Islam (95%)
Reform Judaism (83%)Bobby
Thanks Bobby..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
Hi again, Firm.
The Jewish understanding of when life begins is at conception. From that point forward, the embryo/fetus is considered alive. In that sense, our religions seem to be similar.
However, from a legal perspective, if you kill the fetus any time before it is viable (able to live on its own outside the womb) it is a grave sin, but it is not considered "murder" in the technical sense. Murder can only occur in Jewish law if the vitim would have been able to live on his/her own (with or without the help of machines). So a fetus that is aborted early on is considered a sin, but it is not murder. I believe that our religions differ in this ruling, if I understand Islam's position correctly. I believe that Islam considers ANY abortion to be murder.
Regarding the concept of pre-ordainment or pre-destination, the Jewish viewpoint on this is sometimes confusing to those who didn't grow up learning it. I'll attempt to explain our position, but it may make things more confusing to do so. Feel free to ask more questions.
We believe that everything is pre-ordained by G-d as per His plan. We also believe in the concept of free will. On the surface, these two beliefs would seem to contradictory. If we have free will, then how can anything be pre-ordained by G-d. If everything is pre-ordained, then how can we have free will? The answer to this is that we have the ability to choose our actions, but G-d also knows what choice we will make (being, of course, omnicient --- all knowing). So G-d has already taken our choices into account in his plan.
I like to look at it like this... G-d is like a person holding a snow-globe. The snow-globe is the universe, all of time, space and history. G-d stands outside that globe and is able to look inside from any angle he chooses, is able to shake up the snow-globe, and even has the ability to manipulate the individual snow-flakes. We are the snowflakes. G-d is able to see where each snow-flake will fall or has fallen, and when necessary, he can move the individual snow-flakes around or shake up the whole snow-globe.
Thus G-d is OUTSIDE of time, space and entropy, but is able to see all of time, space and entropy, and manipulate it as he desires. He knows what decisions we have made, are making and will ever make. Most often, he allows the snow-flakes to fall where they may, but occasionally he moves a few of them around as needed. Thus we have free choice, and can choose however we wish, but G-d already knows what that decision is and has already acted to make that choice a part of his plan, and has moved the snowflakes accordingly.
Naturally, this is a very crude and imperfect analogy. G-d is not simply outside the universe, looking in. He IS the universe, and much more. He is both outside and inside the snow-globe, so the analogy of "looking in" doesn't really apply. But this analogy is the best way that I have seen to get across the idea that both free will and predestination can co-exist. But I also know that it is likely to have raised more questions than it answers.
Anyway, feel free to follow up with any other questions.
Elliot
About abortions as far as I understand it is allowed in cases of where the mother's health is in danger confirmed by medical professional.
On free will and divine pre-ordainment I think we are very similar.
I agree the Almighty is all aware of the past,future and present of everything that exists in this world and beyond.
Where do you stand on evolution,blood donation (I ask this because only recently I realised that some faiths forbid the donating or transfusion of blood into them even to save lives) ?
And where can I find stories of the Prophets according to Judaism?
Abortions are permitted in cases of rape or incest, as well as medical emergencies where the mother's life is at risk.
As for the spiritual realm:
We do not believe in "Satan" as the Christians do. Our "Satan" is the "Soton" I described above... the prosecuting angel. He is not an opponent of G-d who tries to promote evil or capture souls. He is merely a prossecutor.
Ghosts and souls returning to Earth: there are those who believe in "Dybbuk" which are souls of the dead that take over a human or animal body. There is a book called "The Dybbuk" which tells a fictional story of a dybbuk that takes over a human body. But it's not something that we HAVE to believe in. Some believe it, some don't, and it doesn't really matter one way or the other. Personally, I don't believe in dybbuks.
We believe that it is possible for the souls of the dead to communicate with humans through dreams. But again, that is something that some belive, some don't, and it doesn't really matter.
Finally, we believe that souls of Great Men who may have failed to accomplish a specific mission can be reincarnated as another person so that this soul can acomplish that mission, whatever it is, and "complete" that Great Man. This isn't as a punishment, but rather as a chance to finish unfinished business.
Evolution: there are two schools of though in Judaism, both of which are acceptable. 1) The world was created in 6 days, there was no evolution. Darwin was 100% wrong. 2) The world was created in 6 "eras", and evolution ocured, but in accordance with the descriptions of the Bible... first oceans, then plants, then lower animals, then more advanced animals, and finally man. Thus Darwin may have been right in some details, but it was through the Hand of G-d and the Divine Plan that evolution took place as described in the Bible.
There is no problem with blood donations whatsoever, in Judaism. In most cases of immediate need, organ donations are also permissable, but that requires a questioning Rabinical authority, because each case is different.
Stories of the Prophets: in the "Books of the Prophets" which is part of the OT Bible.
The following are the books of the Prophets, and most of their stories are available on various Bible internet sites. They also link to a website that translates the Hebrew into English. (Decent translation, but not the best... but it's free.)
Thank you....
Its going to take some time for me to get through the stories of the Prophets.
EDIT:....ET, you mentioned somewhere here, about awaiting a Messianic rule,could you explain a bit more detail on what exactly you meant?Are there signs you await before this happens?Does this event mean the end of the world or does it herald Juedgement?
This too is similar"That a man shall not wear women's clothing (Deut. 22:5) (CCN179).
That a woman should not wear men's clothing (Deut. 22:5) (CCN178)."
Another thing I noticed was this "Not to make a graven image; neither to make it oneself nor to have it made by others (Ex. 20:4) (CCN9).
Not to make any figures for ornament, even if they are not worshipped (Ex. 20:20) (CCN144).
Not to make idols even for others (Ex. 34:17; Lev. 19:4) (CCN10).
Not to use the ornament of any object of idolatrous worship (Deut. 7:25) (CCN17).
Not to make use of an idol or its accessory objects, offerings, or libations (Deut. 7:26) (CCN18). See Grape Products."
If someone could explain further please,does this mean that there are no images of living creatures or humans in Jewish homes?
There was another detail I wanted to ask,about a menstruating woman not praying I can understand,but it also says that "That a menstruating woman is unclean and defiles others (Lev. 15:19-24) (affirmative)" Does this mean that she stays away from everyone during this period or is it only in regard to place of worship?
And about circumcision, is it done on the 7th or 8th day?Or is it flexible that it can be performed at a later age before adulthood?And does it have to be done by a Rabbi or religious person or is it allowed to be done in a medical facility by non-Jews?
Beard,is it only the Rabbis that keep the beard long?Or is it recommended practice for all followers or only the Orthodox?
I'm not Orthodox so I don't see fit to follow the laws to certain extent, however I understand the menstruating woman to mean no sexual relations between wife and husband until she is finished and gone through mikvah. However there is more to the Jewish law on Niddah, so yes there are certain further contacts that are not permitted. Perhaps Rosends can give more detail, I think ETW took leave of absence from the board for awhile. Being Reform my wife and I wait till she finishes her menstruation period, but don't actively seek mikvah.
As for circumcision it is to be done on the eight day. I recently had my son's bris done with blessing of name on the eight day, followed by festive meal.
Facial hair, if your observant to this law, than you should not cut the corners of your head; starting below each ear and around the chin. This applies not only to rabbis, but all older Jewish males past adolescence. I kept a beard for years, back when I was more observant. The length is that you need to be able to at least pinch the hair growth grasping with two fingers. In other words it can be maintained and groomed or you can have it as long as you like.
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