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seanbrise · Sep 18, 2008, 10:41 PM

Well, looks like I have a major problem. We have had a slow draining toilet since we moved into the house. It wasn't noticeable as much first because the toilet was a low flow toilet, and they are slow anyway. So it got a little slower and I just got fed up with it. So, I flushed the vent lines with no help, I figured that a kid must have shoved something in the toilet so I replaced the toilet. The toilet I got was a big flusher, one of the toilets that can flush anything. Well, it got worse. So now we have a ton of water move into the bowl really fast, then it slowly drains again.

I called the plumber out thinking maybe there was something stuck in the pipes (was crossing fingers that it wasn't a slope problem). He dropped a camera in and we found the pipes were full of water and stays full for at least 5-10 feet, then it went dry again about 4-5 feet from the edge of the house. So, I either have a low spot in that wet run, or the pipe exiting the house is a high spot. Weird how the plumber that was out said it was only a low spot. Oh well.

So, he said they would need to rip up the bathroom, and maybe the babies room to relevel the pipes correctly.

My thought was what about lowering the pipe as it exists the house? If we drop it down a few inches, or up to 6" in the last 5 or so feet exiting the house then that should do it. The problem I am worried about is I would have to break out a chunk of the footer. Would this cause a problem? The pipe is sitting right on the footer, so I would need to break out a 6" section directly beneath the pipe, and cut out the rebar if they installed it.

I am very very handy. I built my last house (not this one), farmed out about 70% of it myself, and I did the rest. Minor plumbing experience, few sprinkler systems, some wood working, I have remodeled an entire kitchen, from sub floor, to electric, to cabinet install. So I am not afraid of digging into either one of the projects, I would really just rather not destroy the interior of the house.

Thoughts? Recommendations?

Sean

speedball1 · Sep 19, 2008, 05:04 AM

Good morning Sean,

My thought was what about lowering the pipe as it exists the house? If we drop it down a few inches, or up to 6" in the last 5 or so feet exiting the house then that should do it. The problem I am worried about is I would have to break out a chunk of the footer.

You would have more worries then the footer if you lowered the sewer as it exited the house. This would put you lower then the sewer that runs to the street. All you would be doing in changing the low spot from one place to another. Since the low spot is so close to the footer have you considered tunneling under the slab to raise the bell in the pipe? Just thought I'd give you more options then tearing up your home. Good luck, Tom

Milo Dolezal · Sep 19, 2008, 05:29 AM

It is very unusual to have low spot under the slab, and in the middle of the house that developed later, after house was built. Could be that the original plumber didn't compact trench after original installation, dirt sagged, pipe lost its support - and eventually dropped by its own weight.

Now, if it is low only in one spot, you could excavate only that section and just "lift" it up a bit to reach the required slope.

It is a lot of mess to correct it. Please, be absolutely sure you actually have low spot in you line before you cut up your house. Study the video inspection tape with other professionals who could see what others don't see...

seanbrise · Sep 19, 2008, 05:55 AM

The pipe outside of the house has a major slope as I am on a small hill, that won't be a problem to keep a slope on it.

So, I didn't get a tape of the video. And yeah, its probobly the idiot that installed this stuff in the first place. No matter how it happened, I am stuck with it now. The plumber wanted to raise the lines in the bathroom up and see if that helped it, then break through the bedroom if necessary. But, I am not convinced that is the best route. First thing I will do is get some bids and see what they say they would do.

If I do have to break through the slab then I will do the slab and dirt work, and they will do the lines. Just soooo don' want to do that if at all possible.

Milo Dolezal · Sep 19, 2008, 06:16 AM

Now you are raising a good question... no DVD of the sewer video inspection?. hmm... Usually, if you really have a problem, plumber will gladly leave that video behind. We always do...

You always have to stay right next to the plumber during the sewer video inspection and watch the video live with him. Otherwise, he will tell you that your sewer needs major work done. He'll give you a bid and will expect you to give him the job. That's normal procedure...

I am very skeptical about the "low point" in your sewer under the slab. If I was you, I would either get second opinion or call the original guy back to re-inspect.

seanbrise · Sep 19, 2008, 06:38 AM

I was watching it with him and saw when it was entering and exiting the water. But that's about it. I was planning on getting 2nd opinions anyway, but dang they charge a lot of the camera runs. Ug

Milo Dolezal · Sep 19, 2008, 06:52 AM

Standing water may indicate low point in sewer pipe - but may also indicate obstruction in the pipe. Solids build up behind this obstruction, creating "dam" that prevents water from gravity flow. That may be the standing water.

My company gives full credit for video inspection if we do the job. See if you can get the same deal, too...

seanbrise · Sep 19, 2008, 07:43 AM

He ran the camera all the way through the water from dry spot to dry spot and there was no obstruction. I was sooo hoping for one though.

Milo Dolezal · Sep 19, 2008, 07:48 AM

Ok, than in this case, you may have a low spot in your sewer pipe. You will have to excavate & expose in order to correct it. Sorry...

rtw_travel · Sep 19, 2008, 08:34 AM

We tore up the basement floor in a finished room in our current house for a different reason. The plumbing was OK but I wanted to put in a footing for a post supporting an upstairs beam. I ended up having to dig down about 6' to undisturbed soil (b@$tard builders 60 years ago used their excavation soil and brush as backfill!). WHen the hole was dug, there was a pile of dirt that covered most of the floor.

It wasn't actually that bad because the entire mess was contained in one room. We took the furniture and carpet out (wanted to replace carpet anyway). We had a cango, shovels, and mixed concrete in a wheelbarrow all in that one room. With the door and ventilation blocked, there was no mess anywhere else in the house. Perhaps if you were careful, you could lay down the same piece of carpet again when you're done.

I know how you feel... I hate ripping something out that is done & being used. But it really wasn't that bad. I think it was two weeks at the most before we were back in the room - and that was doing the work myself in the evenings and weekends. Walls, painting and electrical were untouched - some rejigging of the baseboard and laying a new carpet and you could not tell the excavation that had taken place.

In your case, perhaps start with the most likely room (baby's room based on the video?). You will be able to dig under the bathroom a bit from the baby's room if the low point starts there to keep the mess in only one room.

speedball1 · Sep 19, 2008, 10:05 AM

One more time! Since the low spot is so close to the footer have you considered tunneling under the slab to raise the bell in the pipe? Just thought I'd give you more options then tearing up your home I have done this in houses where the problem was close to the foundation. Of course if it's farther in you'll have to take up the slab. Good luck, Tom

seanbrise · Sep 19, 2008, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by speedball1

One more time! Since the low spot is so close to the footer have you considered tunneling under the slab to raise the bell in the pipe? Just thought I'd give you more options then tearing up your home I have done this in houses where the problem was close to the foundation. Of course if it's farther in you'll have to take up the slab. Good luck, Tom

OK, you'll have to help me out here. By tunnel, how big are you talking? I would love to tunnel under and just push it up, but then we are talking probobly 15 feet into the house is where we would have to raise up a bit.

And, would cutting the footer cause issues? I could even reconcrete it afterwards. There is a large drop in the front after leaving the house, so lowering it there wouldn't be an issue.

speedball1 · Sep 20, 2008, 04:37 AM

I was under the impression that the problem was 10' max from the foundation. Sooo, ijust how big a chunk would you have to take out of the footer to bring slope back into the main? Regards, Tom

seanbrise · Sep 20, 2008, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by speedball1

I was under the impression that the problem was 10' max from the foundation. Sooo, ijust how big a chunk would you have to take out of the footer to bring slope back into the main? Regards, Tom

I would probobly just have to drop the pipe 4-6" max. So, i was thinking remove most of the footer just 6" wide and dig a trench out to the downslope to be sure we still have downward slope. Our yard has a huge slope so fixing it in the yard is easy. I just don't want to damage the foundation by accident. Break through a little concrete and rent a small back hoe or destroy a bedroom and rent a jack hammer. I would rather destroy the yard than the rooms. But, I don't know about the footer, so I defer to the experts on it.

speedball1 · Sep 20, 2008, 02:14 PM

Is the pipe on top of the footer at the present time? You're still going to hafta tunnel in 4 or 5 feet to drop the pipe evenly. You'll have to start at the point where it went dry and slope from there. How deep are your footers? Sounds like a "fun project". Good luck, Tom

seanbrise · Sep 20, 2008, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by speedball1

Is the pipe on top of the footer at the present time? You're still gonna hafta tunnel in 4 or 5 feet to drop the pipe evenly. you'll have to start at the point where it went dry and slope from there. How deep are your footers? Sounds like a "fun project". Good luck, Tom

I already dug up in the front to expose the pipe. It is sitting right on top of the footer, and its about 12-15" below grade.

Yeah, I would have to cut away most of the footer in that 6" wide spot, then pull dirt out below the pipe for about 5' into the house. Would also have to dig out probobly 15' from the house to allow the pipe to drop down without applying pressure to it.

So, is cutting away on the footer an OK thing to do?

seanbrise · Oct 12, 2008, 04:00 PM

OK, I tore up a rather large section of the bedroom and have exposed about a 5' section of pipe. There is a really bad back slop on it so that's the problem no doubt now. So now is the fun part. How far do I go about digging under the house exposing the pipe to try and relevel it? And how do I lift it to readjust the slope without busting the pipe? Just looking for suggestions on it.