[Curlyben]

Are we seeing a complete disconnect between perceived reality and scientific fact, or is it merely a change in semantic usage.
The old Sex and Gender topic yet again.

Are Sex and Gender the same and interchangeable or separate and distinct ?
Should we, as the general public, respect each and everyone's personal choice of pronoun, or address people as they present ?
Are pronouns, especially neo-pronouns, becoming an extension of people's names ?
Has the whole feeling of individual entitlement gone far to far ?

I'm actually looking for a discussion, not more rhetoric.

[Curlyben]

I'll just move and bump this one as I'm actually interested in other's views.

[jlisenbe]

Has the whole feeling of individual entitlement gone far to far ?

That's a great question. It goes back, at some level, to Jordan Peterson's argument with the Canadian government trying to compel their people to address deceived people in a certain, government-prescribed manner. We have to absolutely resist that.

[Wondergirl]

Are Sex and Gender the same and interchangeable or separate and distinct ?

Sex is what one sees when someone is naked. Gender is what that naked person's brain says.

Should we, as the general public, respect each and everyone's personal choice of pronoun, or address people as they present ?

Sure. Why shouldn't we? It's really not difficult! (And for jlisenbe, it gives me an opportunity to love unconditionally and to tell the individual about His love.)

[jlisenbe]

Sex is what one sees when someone is naked. Gender is what that naked person's brain says.

A completely made-up set of daffynitions only brought about recently by the transgender movements desire to normalize their mental delusions. The truth is that gender and sex have been somewhat synonymous for several centuries, the distinction being that gender is used more as a class or group word while sex has been used to refer more to the reproductive functions. So we would say, "Two people were having sex (not gender) in the movie last night," while a man might would say, "I am of the male gender (not sex)." Sex can be used to refer to the functions of the pistil and stamen of a flower while gender typically would be more limited only to humans. Reproduction not involving male and female is known as asexual reproduction, not agender reproduction. Both words are objective, not subjective.

This desire to normalize and defend the TG movement is also why we now have a female Supreme Court member who can't figure out what it means to be a woman.

[tomder55]

A man is a man, and a woman is a woman. Claiming otherwise is magical thinking, fine for one to indulge personally . Buta mistake culturally and societally . While conservatives celebrate the differences the progressives want to deny the differences because it contradicts their utopian egalitarianism by denying gender roles.

It denies basic biology. For a man to become a "woman" or a woman become a "man" requires mutualization and sterilization. Biologically humans need to procreate to survive as a species .

But gender advocates began teaching otherwise. Berkley professor Judith Butler (author of 'Gender Trouble: Feminism and the Subversion of Identity') wrote that “gender is in no way a stable identity or locus of agency.”
Performative Acts and Gender Constitution: An Essay in Phenomenology and Feminist Theory | Trans Reads

In reality she promotes the idea that gender, and sex are oppressive social constructs. She then combines that with other radical leftist theories such as critical race theory(CRT). “The question of who and what is considered real and true is … a question of power.”

The Question of Power and Authority in Gender Performance: (gla.ac.uk)

It is the Marxist struggle taken beyond economics .

'There is no theory which accounts for the oppression of women—in its endless variety and monotonous similarity, cross-culturally and throughout history—with anything like the explanatory power of the Marxist theory of class oppression.”

RUBtti.pdf (philpapers.org)

They can then lump all people who oppose their theories as the oppressor class which fits in perfectly in a Marxist viewpoint.

Transgender Marxism (plutobooks.com)

[jlisenbe]

the progressives want to deny the differences because it contradicts their utopian egalitarianism like denying gender roles.

I think it also includes a desire to be seen as the newly enlightened class.

When men can be women and women can be men, then all delusions become possible. Wonder what's next? The battle to affirm the basic humanity of the unborn continues. We have managed to build a somewhat fragile wall there. If it falls, then what group would be next?

They can then lump all people who oppose their theories as the oppressor class which fits in perfectly in a Marxist viewpoint.

That's a really good point. It's the use of deceit to advance a cause. The real question is, what cause are they truly trying to advance? It usually comes down to some level of personal benefit.

[tomder55]

“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “who is to be master – that's all.”

[jlisenbe]

Yes indeed. We were founded on the concept that each person is largely to be his/her own master. That is slipping away.

[Wondergirl]

I pray that you all will become transgender when we're given the empathy test before we're allowed into heaven.

[jlisenbe]

There is no empathy test.

[Wondergirl]

There is no empathy test.

Gabriel hasn't told you about it yet?! It starts in this life and ends with a final score before you are allowed to cross the Rainbow Bridge.

[Curlyben]

So, zero basis in reality, it would appear.
Must say I'm slightly shocked, but not unduly surprised.

[Wondergirl]

So, zero basis in reality, it would appear.
Must say I'm slightly shocked, but not unduly surprised.

Just you wait! What fun we will have!!!

[jlisenbe]

So, zero basis in reality, it would appear.

That's about it. The support for TG consists of inventing evidence and then presenting it as truth as well as redefining words away from their historically understood meanings.

[Wondergirl]

That's about it. The support for TG consists of inventing evidence and then presenting it as truth as well as redefining words away from their historically understood meanings.

Please have a conversation with someoe who has completed the trans change. Ask why the need in the first place. Find out what is done and why and how. Ask about emotional and physical issues and how this has greatly improved life.

[jlisenbe]

My area is dealing with men who are in drug/alcohol addiction. They all have stories, and many of them are heart rending. That does not change the fact that addiction is bad and men need to escape from it. So your suggestion adds absolutely nothing to the conversation other than to point out that TG people, like many other groups, have emotionally gripping stories. It does not mean they have, in any way, changed from male to female or vice-versa.

[tomder55]

'emotional and physical issues' that would be better solved with less extreme measures than mutilation and sterilization

[jlisenbe]

To be clear, my heart goes out to these people, just as my heart goes out to a man caught in addiction who leaves our program to return to a world where, in his entire adult life, he has known nothing but the world of addiction, and I know the odds are pretty significant that he will return to that life. It's tragic, but it doesn't mean I pat him on the back and assure him that drug addiction is really a quite wonderful thing.

[Wondergirl]

'emotional and physical issues' that would be better solved with less extreme measures than mutilation and sterilization

Those have been tried and don't work. The issues are created by... heck, I'll dig out the explanation that a trans woman gave me and post it
here.